What did real medieval mines look like?
- Thread starter HandofMystra
- Start date
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Many medieval mines were quite short in height - I have seen discussions as to whether the common use of children in mining was what led to the legends of the dwarfs.
Water was a constant problem, and many of the mines that had found ways to deal with the water kept their methods a trade secret. (One of the reasons that Agricola's De Rei Metallica was so influential, it made many of those 'secrets' widely available.) The book was held up in the TV series Connections, where I first encountered it.
As a source I would recommend De Rei Metallica, though it is a dry and dusty read - a manual on mining techniques published in 1556. A translation from the Latin is available, translated by Herbert Hoover - later President of the United States. In many ways a typical D&D setting is closer to the 1500s than to a true medieval period. Or you can give the techniques in that book to the dwarfs, and let the humans deal with the older methods.
The Auld Grump
Water was a constant problem, and many of the mines that had found ways to deal with the water kept their methods a trade secret. (One of the reasons that Agricola's De Rei Metallica was so influential, it made many of those 'secrets' widely available.) The book was held up in the TV series Connections, where I first encountered it.
As a source I would recommend De Rei Metallica, though it is a dry and dusty read - a manual on mining techniques published in 1556. A translation from the Latin is available, translated by Herbert Hoover - later President of the United States. In many ways a typical D&D setting is closer to the 1500s than to a true medieval period. Or you can give the techniques in that book to the dwarfs, and let the humans deal with the older methods.
The Auld Grump
Unless your campaign is specifically set in a sparcly populated feudal era, why limit yourself to Medieval mines? Do a Google search on 'Roman mines' and 'Roman mining'; specifically look at the images section. There are some good sites with photos of surviving Roman mines that look a lot like D&D dungeon corridors. The Romans used large water wheels to pump water out of their larger mines.
Also try looking for maps of old west gold & silver mines. Just ignore the ore carts and rails, and the rest should look a lot like what a large kingdom is capable of creating.
Also try looking for maps of old west gold & silver mines. Just ignore the ore carts and rails, and the rest should look a lot like what a large kingdom is capable of creating.
Woas
First Post
Rats
Mines throughout time had rats in them. The thing though is miners actually liked having the rats around and often would bring some stale bread or what not down with them just to feed them and keep the rats around. Why did hte miners like and put up with rats? Because they believed that the rats had a keener sense to the world and if a miner ever saw a bunch of rats bolt out of an area, they would follow right behind because more often than not the rats could sense the tremors in the earth and would leave an area that was about to cave in!
Mines throughout time had rats in them. The thing though is miners actually liked having the rats around and often would bring some stale bread or what not down with them just to feed them and keep the rats around. Why did hte miners like and put up with rats? Because they believed that the rats had a keener sense to the world and if a miner ever saw a bunch of rats bolt out of an area, they would follow right behind because more often than not the rats could sense the tremors in the earth and would leave an area that was about to cave in!
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Absolutely full of child laborers.
Like, to the brim.
Like, to the brim.
HandofMystra
First Post
Thanks. I originally was displeased with mines in Idylls of teh Rat King. Now I have a ton of info to chew on. Thanks.
There are coalmines in America that have been burning for decades, too.
What a mine looks like depends upon what is being mined, and where.
If the mineral being mined is something found in veins, the mines will follow the veins. They will be cramped, but orderly.
If the mineral is something found in small amounts, you might get a honeycomb type effect, still quite cramped, but not as orderly. Cave ins are frequent.
Minerals found in great quantities may be quarried or pit mined. You'll find great holes left over from these types of mine. This is typical of building materials like marble, granite, and limestone, but also salt and many metals are pit mined as well.
Some gemstones are "mined" by panning, because flowing water does such a good job of seperating the desirable mineral from its matrix. Gold was commonly "panned" this way in California in the 1840's, but river mining was part of the source of the worlds greatest crown jewels in history: the Persian crown jewels. The "River of Blood" from Arab legends is thought to be a particular river that was so full of ruby that the river appeared red.
Note that almost any mineral may be mined in any way, depending on the particular deposit. In parts of Brazil and Columbia, you'll find Emeralds being recovered from small pit mines.
Coober Peady, a famous opal mine in Australia, has sections in which the miners (Dwarf-like) live underground, plucking the opals from the "walls" of their homes- and some are quite normal looking (except that there aren't any windows...). Its one of the few places on Earth in which expanding your house pays for itself.
There's a salt mine in America where the tunnels are tens of yards across, and the vehicles they drive in them are the size of bulldozers...but Venice (or one of the other Mediterranean economic/military powers) "mined" salt from the sea with salt-trap ponds.
Aside: Treebore- are you a DeBeers diamond buyer?
What a mine looks like depends upon what is being mined, and where.
If the mineral being mined is something found in veins, the mines will follow the veins. They will be cramped, but orderly.
If the mineral is something found in small amounts, you might get a honeycomb type effect, still quite cramped, but not as orderly. Cave ins are frequent.
Minerals found in great quantities may be quarried or pit mined. You'll find great holes left over from these types of mine. This is typical of building materials like marble, granite, and limestone, but also salt and many metals are pit mined as well.
Some gemstones are "mined" by panning, because flowing water does such a good job of seperating the desirable mineral from its matrix. Gold was commonly "panned" this way in California in the 1840's, but river mining was part of the source of the worlds greatest crown jewels in history: the Persian crown jewels. The "River of Blood" from Arab legends is thought to be a particular river that was so full of ruby that the river appeared red.
Note that almost any mineral may be mined in any way, depending on the particular deposit. In parts of Brazil and Columbia, you'll find Emeralds being recovered from small pit mines.
Coober Peady, a famous opal mine in Australia, has sections in which the miners (Dwarf-like) live underground, plucking the opals from the "walls" of their homes- and some are quite normal looking (except that there aren't any windows...). Its one of the few places on Earth in which expanding your house pays for itself.
There's a salt mine in America where the tunnels are tens of yards across, and the vehicles they drive in them are the size of bulldozers...but Venice (or one of the other Mediterranean economic/military powers) "mined" salt from the sea with salt-trap ponds.
Aside: Treebore- are you a DeBeers diamond buyer?
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painandgreed
First Post
Water was a major problem in real mines, and they could only go so deep because mechanical means to raise the water became too difficult. In D&D you are typically dealing with a world that has an underdark. Usually there is no shortage of caves that go deep into the ground and even criss cross the world. Following these to mine or digging drainage tunnels over to one to allow the water to flow into the underground seas would be a possibility. It is a fantasy world after all.
Check out http://www.unc.edu/~duncan/personal/roman_mining/deep-vein_mining.htm for some details about Roman mines. Mining was one of the industries that suffered for a while in the wake of the decline of the Roman Empire, so while the Roman standard was surpassed in the later Middle Ages, the Roman design is a pretty good approximation of how things would have been on average across the period. The 1200-1400 era saw the use of wheelbarrows (a technology imported from China) and vertical waterwheels for pumping out water, both improvements over the Romans (and the addition of wheelbarrows might have required slightly wider/higher passageways). Around 1500, waterwheels started to be used to improve ventilation as well.
