What do/don't you like about mecha
- Thread starter Stormborn
- Start date
Roudi
First Post
I have a few beefs with the d20 Future mecha system (I have been working to rectify them with Mechævolutions)
- most mecha weapons deal less average damage than an M1A2 Abrams tank (including weapons two or three progress levels above PL5).
- melee weapons outclass ranged weapons thanks to the STR bonus to damage
- mecha add an enhancement bonus to their pilot's STR score. This makes sense for a suit of power armor, but not for a colossal mech
There are things I do like about that system; I like the slot-based construction system, I like the fact that they aren't a separate combat system (like starships), and there's a fair amount of 3rd party support for the system.
- most mecha weapons deal less average damage than an M1A2 Abrams tank (including weapons two or three progress levels above PL5).
- melee weapons outclass ranged weapons thanks to the STR bonus to damage
- mecha add an enhancement bonus to their pilot's STR score. This makes sense for a suit of power armor, but not for a colossal mech
There are things I do like about that system; I like the slot-based construction system, I like the fact that they aren't a separate combat system (like starships), and there's a fair amount of 3rd party support for the system.
DwelleroftheDeep
First Post
D20 mecha from guardians of order. What I like about this supplement is that it lets me build any sort of vehicle and giant robots are easily taken care of and pitted against most anything else. On top of that I like the weapons design and their basis for starship speeds.
johnnype
First Post
My experience is limited to Heavy Gear using the Silhouette system so the following may not be of much use to you.
Likes:
-It's very tactical. It's almost like a chess game. The speed you move your Gear (read: mech) is just as important as the weapon you use. Many factors affect play and as a result the outcome of battles is always in question. Things like terrain, obstruction and line of fire are central to the game and really test the strategic intelligence of the players.
- Endless variety of gears, load outs, armor etc. I also love the way they look. These are NOT the butt-ugly Battletech mechs you might be familiar with.
-Special maneuvers like Indirect Fire, Hull Down Positions, Electronic Countermeasures and Electronic Counter Countermeasures (ECM and ECCM) give the game a lot of depth and allow for some spectacular action.
-Infantry is actually important to the game. A well placed round can criple a Gear.
-The rules were available fror free download from www.drivethrurpg.com a while ago.
Dislikes:
-I hate miniatures and that's all DP9 (the publisher) is supporting the game with. I use paper cut outs instead and they work just fine.
- The rules that I used have been retired. DP9 has just published their Blitz! rules for the game that are supposed to streamline and speed up play. I've never used them so I can't comment on their quality.
Likes:
-It's very tactical. It's almost like a chess game. The speed you move your Gear (read: mech) is just as important as the weapon you use. Many factors affect play and as a result the outcome of battles is always in question. Things like terrain, obstruction and line of fire are central to the game and really test the strategic intelligence of the players.
- Endless variety of gears, load outs, armor etc. I also love the way they look. These are NOT the butt-ugly Battletech mechs you might be familiar with.
-Special maneuvers like Indirect Fire, Hull Down Positions, Electronic Countermeasures and Electronic Counter Countermeasures (ECM and ECCM) give the game a lot of depth and allow for some spectacular action.
-Infantry is actually important to the game. A well placed round can criple a Gear.
-The rules were available fror free download from www.drivethrurpg.com a while ago.
Dislikes:
-I hate miniatures and that's all DP9 (the publisher) is supporting the game with. I use paper cut outs instead and they work just fine.
- The rules that I used have been retired. DP9 has just published their Blitz! rules for the game that are supposed to streamline and speed up play. I've never used them so I can't comment on their quality.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
I've got a few beefs with the D20 Future mecha system, too.
In order to get +9 Defense, a D20 Modern character has to spend three feats. Or they can just buy Mecha Operation. I'm not too surprised that GMs frequently complain about about Mecha PCs with high Defense. You don't see Fast Heroes in heavy armor often, but you see Fast Heroes in mecha fairly frequently. Attack systems should give higher bonuses to attack... IMO.
Due to D20 Future's power creep, class abilities fall by the wayside. The damage bonus from Inspiration isn't at all impressive when you can dish out 7d6 damage anyway, but is pretty sweet when you're dual-wielding pistols.
The weapons aren't balanced. Weapons of the same PL should do about the same damage, but there's a huge amount of variance. There's no size variation for ranged weapons, yet the melee weapons have massive differences based on size.
I do like the slot system, though. There's cool abilities and they're frequently balanced. They're probably weaker, but I like quadrupedal mecha as well.
Using the same combat system as regular characters makes learning how to use mecha simple. They can use cover, go prone and otherwise do the same thing characters can. I think they make flying too easy to access. It's pretty easy for the GM to say that flying systems just aren't available in their campaign, however.
It's too bad the same rules aren't used for tanks and mecha. I think Waylan Wolf posted an M1 Abrams tank, using mecha rules, on the WotC D20 Future thread. If I found that thread, I'd save it and also link it here.
The Strength-boosting might not make sense from a realism PoV, but it doesn't bother me.
In order to get +9 Defense, a D20 Modern character has to spend three feats. Or they can just buy Mecha Operation. I'm not too surprised that GMs frequently complain about about Mecha PCs with high Defense. You don't see Fast Heroes in heavy armor often, but you see Fast Heroes in mecha fairly frequently. Attack systems should give higher bonuses to attack... IMO.
Due to D20 Future's power creep, class abilities fall by the wayside. The damage bonus from Inspiration isn't at all impressive when you can dish out 7d6 damage anyway, but is pretty sweet when you're dual-wielding pistols.
The weapons aren't balanced. Weapons of the same PL should do about the same damage, but there's a huge amount of variance. There's no size variation for ranged weapons, yet the melee weapons have massive differences based on size.
I do like the slot system, though. There's cool abilities and they're frequently balanced. They're probably weaker, but I like quadrupedal mecha as well.
Using the same combat system as regular characters makes learning how to use mecha simple. They can use cover, go prone and otherwise do the same thing characters can. I think they make flying too easy to access. It's pretty easy for the GM to say that flying systems just aren't available in their campaign, however.
It's too bad the same rules aren't used for tanks and mecha. I think Waylan Wolf posted an M1 Abrams tank, using mecha rules, on the WotC D20 Future thread. If I found that thread, I'd save it and also link it here.
The Strength-boosting might not make sense from a realism PoV, but it doesn't bother me.
Aussiegamer
First Post
For me the whole "its a very large power armour suit" with bonus str and hp seems to devalue the whole concept of mechs. IMHO
My primary gripe with mecha lies not in their design in d20 modern, which I do consider flawed. It lies in the fact that they even exist in-game in the first place as anything more than glorified power armor. Mecha are best suited for an infantry support role. They're too top-heavy to carry the heavy main guns that a tank of their era could handle, and if you can build a mecha that can run and jump and FLY, whats to stop you from building a tank that can go 150 kph, turn on a dime, and HOVER? Seriously, D20 future gives up how many pages of Mecha, and how many pages of vehicles? The one reason ingame to include them is the fact that despite their high target profile and lower firepower capacity the can carry a missile or demolitions charge, and they might be fast and flexible enough for infiltration missions. Wow. Really, this is just in there for the OMGWTFBBQ cool factor.
I don't ever plan on using a mecha larger than Large. Ever. But thats just my hatred for things like Gundam and Battletech showing through because of how the tanks in those settings seem to be designed for mech target practice.
I don't ever plan on using a mecha larger than Large. Ever. But thats just my hatred for things like Gundam and Battletech showing through because of how the tanks in those settings seem to be designed for mech target practice.
Pbartender
First Post
Verec said:
To echo Verec...
What I like about mecha: THEY'RE GIANT FRIGGAN ROBOTS!
What I don't like about mecha: They're ludicrously impracticle pieces of excessively complicated equipment... Heavy Infantry, Mobile Artillery (tanks), and Close Support Aircraft can do any job a giant robot can and do it better.
johnnype
First Post
Yet another reason why I love Heavy Gear. The game is written so that Gears are not the kings of the battlefield. In fact, a battle between Gears and Tanks will end very badly for the gears. It's actually barely a contest. The Gears have some nice mobility bonuses but tanks will always take the cake.Verec said:
One other thing: Heavy Gear has Hover Tanks! They are mostly fielded by Earth forces but Terra Nova has been working hard to catch up.
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