What do/don't you like about mecha

[The Black Kestrel]

As much as I prefer d20 Mecha's mecha rules to d20 Future's mecha rules, especially since the former cover all vehicles rather than just giant robots, the battleships with spitballs paradigm is definitely more in keeping with the d20 tradition.

Personally, I'd like to know how people have done with GREATLY reducing the cost of armor (or perhaps hp) in d20 Mecha. Currently, it handles live-fast-die-young super robots like the EVAs, or military mecha like the ones in Robotech, but it doesn't handle tough, ablative hp and armor mecha, like those of Battletech or Xenogears, well at all.

I haven't fooled around with reducing the cost of armor at all. DwelleroftheDeeps' suggetion makes perfect sense. I'm interested in why you think Armor is too expensive. I find that Armor rarely takes the lion share of MP when designing a mech in d20 Mecha, its usually the movement speed that gobbles up MP (of course lately I've been doing starships with realistic space movement and a lot BP which could be skewing my view right now).

I've attached a spreadsheet comparing the Manticore from d20 Future and the Hunter from Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear d20. They are roughly matched in MP cost/Purchase DC. Both are statted out using d20 Mecha and the conversion guidelines I've worked out from d20 Future to d20 Mecha. The Manticore is definitely in the tough ablative ala the Battletech example above. The Hunter falls under realistic(relatively speaking), military mecha category. Crititque, compare and question away.

 

[ogre]

First, what I like about mecha, as pointed out by a couple people here. "They're giant fricken' robots!" There's just something about them I've always loved, ahhh the good ole' days playing mech warrior mercenaries online. Was that really 10 years ago? *sigh*
Anyway, what I like about the d20 aspects- slot system and the fact that they're like vehicles rather than huge armor. Hardness, hit points etc.
I don't have a problem with the STR bonus, as this automatically gives the pilot a 'base' strength equal to the bonus, and if you follow my reasoning below, I think you can look at it like the pilots STR would be important to how strong the robot is.
I see mecha as an almost cybernetic extension of the human body. This is why they come into existance along side tanks. They 'function' like the human body. Now, in meta game sense, this means the pilot adds his DEX bonus and class defense bonuses, unlike pilots in jets in tanks. Sure, they are not as armored as a tank, but the enhanced mobility makes up the difference. A different combat role for sure, but worthy none-the-less.
Another aspect that separates mecha from tanks is the weapon interchangability. Rather than spending time in a shop outfitting a tank or jet with a specific weapon system, a mecha can simply grab a massive rifle cannon that fits the mission and they're ready to go. Of course all of this relys on the fact that a mecha has a neural connection to the pilot and such advanced and articulate mechanics as to mimic and imporove the human body.

 

[DarkKestral]

Unless, of course, you have the technology to make tanks fly like helicopters, in which case mecha are obsolete. And in all likelyhood, if you can make effective balance, motor and power systems for mecha, then you've probably got the technology to make the balance, motor and power systems for flying (or at least hovering) tanks, APCs and Humvees.

A second thought... Do you think a properly engineered mecha, with all of the moveable parts required by its legs, would be any more heavily armored than your average attack helicopter? Especially if you want it to move at a reasonable speed?

Reasonable speed is defined by the situation. And yeah, I think it could, as the military doesn't armor helis very much. They're protected against most rifle fire, but any anti-materiel rounds will hole them pretty easily. Properly engineered mecha without a need to stay airborne can actually have a fair amount of armor built onto the frame, because their weight maximum for a given motor/frame combination is generally going to be FAR higher. Part of the reason helis don't have much armor is so they can strike fast and carry large quantities of weaponry. Mecha would probably move more slowly, with max speeds around 50-70 MPH. Helis are designed to move upwards of 100-150 MPH maximum. Attack helis are designed as rapid attack and scout vessels, while mecha, as viewed by the military, would be designed as ground control and defense systems for difficult terrain.

To explain, the military's mecha research is oriented around 10-15 foot tall mecha, which could offer tank-sized weaponry on a frame that is suitable for urban combat. They would focus on having 1 or 2 main weapons, and not be built on a precisely human-style frame, but one more like a Mechwarrior quadripedal (or even a sexipedal or octapedal) frame with specialized armatures designed for a specific weapon to minimize recoil effects on the main body. They would not be designed to fly, or be capable of easily interchanging weapons, nor would they be designed for anything but providing armor support in difficult terrain. In fact, the main difficulties today are actually the control elements, as hydraulics and armor is being developed that could make mecha a reality. If 8-legged mecha are built, the control systems wouldn't need to be amazingly complex generally, as they could simply be designed to register deadly damage to legs and change motion schemas to compensate.

Tanks flying like helis would probably require some form of jet propulsion, which is dangerous AND costly at the current moment. Thus, the more anime-style mecha aren't those being researched. In fact, the reality is likely to be closer to Mechwarrior mechs or a GitS Tachikoma than to Evangelion. Dirty, mechanical looking, but not particularly human-like in appearance or function.

Furthermore, there's currently no reason to make tanks fly like helis, since the future of combat appears to be primarily urban combat and/or mountain combat, where large vehicles are generally at a disadvantage anyway.