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what do gods hear?
- Thread starter rossik
- Start date
Treebore
First Post
They can hear anything they want to hear. The question is would they care about some insignificant little peon? One who will be singing the platitudes of the gods in order to get potions and spells of healing, curing, and raising from the dead to work on them. Or they will heal the hard way or stay dead. Thats how I handle this particular issue.
Celebrim
Legend
I would assume that they can hear him at least some of the time.
The 3rd edition rules give the dieties very specific limitations on omniscience, but its still incredibly powerful information gathering ability:
So lets assume a Rank 12 intermediate diety. If you mention the diety by name, it can detect it and focus its senses on it to view the event any time in the week after you mention the name. Since they can take 12 standard actions at a time to view events (22 if thier portfolio involves the senses), and it can be assumed dieties spend a reasonable amount of thier time gathering information about events they are going to collect alot of information. If a rank 12 diety spends only 4 hours a day viewing mortals, he'll observe 28800 events a day and observe and understand what happens within 12 miles of each of those events.
Earlier editions did not have so precise of rules, but those seem reasonable if you want to assume something less than omnipotence but still have effective dieties.
I would think that in a world with millions of inhabitants and hundreds of thousands of worshipers, even 28800 events a day might not be enough to bring an individual blasphemer to an intermediate gods attention or concern. Gods are by thier nature very very busy.
Except that your PC has a problem. He's not an ordinary individual. He's not a little peon. He's presumably a fairly high level character who is important locally or globally to the game world and involved in important events likely to attract the interest of the Gods. So I would presume that he's regularly checked up on by every God whose portfolio might be impact by his actions, and by the rules (and logically) the most convienent and interesting time to check up on him is when he mentions the diety by name. Oooops.
And in that case he's screwed. Because if you assume as D&D always has that the gods of D&D are typical members of polytheistic pantheons, then you must assume that they are even the best of the vindictive in the extreme and have very little tolerance for mere mortals doing anything to diminish thier glory. Lèse majesté is not at all tolerated and must be addressed summarily.
At the very least...
a) Any cleric of any of the dieties he's ever cursed will find that thier beneficial spells no longer help him. Any god he's ever cursed will not heal, cure, or ressurect the blasphemer nor suffer thier followers to do the same until the blasphemer has made suitable atonement.
b) Any of the dieties servitors will begin with a hostile attitude toward the character. That could be a problem if the characters ever run across say a Planetar.
c) Any action that the character undertakes which could effect the dieties portfolio will be regarded hostilely.
d) The portofolio of any of the deities he's ever cursed will become hostile to the character. So for example, if he curses a fire god, you may expect that he'll never be able to start a fire under duress, and that any fire he does start (or even gets near) will either mysteriously sputter out (if needed) or else mysteriously spread (if unwanted). If he curses a sea diety, ocean travel will always be disasterous. If he curses a god of horses, then horses will thereafter respond hostilely to his presence, and so forth.
If he's a prominent individual whose behavior could potentially sway others (in earlier editions if he's 9th level or above), then even that would be considered too light of punishment and more direct intervention is likely. I'd give it a 1% chance per incident that the diety would respond immediately, and a greater percent chance if the incident occurred within the dieties sacred sites or places of worship.
As for how I'd handle this...
Normally, I'd warn the character in and possibly out of game the first time this came up. Having a hostile relationship with even a single diety is really putting a heavy burden on yourself, but if the character understood the consequences it could make for interesting RP. However, literally no mortal can afford to have a large number of Gods offended at them. If you follow the above suggestions, you are more or less dooming your player and I would not advocate changing your play style radically because that wouldn't be fair to the player. Instead, assume that the PC is just becoming powerful enough to garner notice and pick one diety as the one that has become offended. If he doesn't take the hint, start adding more. Eventually you may want to approach the player in private to see if this is really the story he wants to create. Enemy of the gods is definately an 'epic destiny' but as Prometheus or Tantalus or even Oddyseus could tell you, it doesn't usually work out well.
The 3rd edition rules give the dieties very specific limitations on omniscience, but its still incredibly powerful information gathering ability:
So lets assume a Rank 12 intermediate diety. If you mention the diety by name, it can detect it and focus its senses on it to view the event any time in the week after you mention the name. Since they can take 12 standard actions at a time to view events (22 if thier portfolio involves the senses), and it can be assumed dieties spend a reasonable amount of thier time gathering information about events they are going to collect alot of information. If a rank 12 diety spends only 4 hours a day viewing mortals, he'll observe 28800 events a day and observe and understand what happens within 12 miles of each of those events.
Earlier editions did not have so precise of rules, but those seem reasonable if you want to assume something less than omnipotence but still have effective dieties.
I would think that in a world with millions of inhabitants and hundreds of thousands of worshipers, even 28800 events a day might not be enough to bring an individual blasphemer to an intermediate gods attention or concern. Gods are by thier nature very very busy.
Except that your PC has a problem. He's not an ordinary individual. He's not a little peon. He's presumably a fairly high level character who is important locally or globally to the game world and involved in important events likely to attract the interest of the Gods. So I would presume that he's regularly checked up on by every God whose portfolio might be impact by his actions, and by the rules (and logically) the most convienent and interesting time to check up on him is when he mentions the diety by name. Oooops.
And in that case he's screwed. Because if you assume as D&D always has that the gods of D&D are typical members of polytheistic pantheons, then you must assume that they are even the best of the vindictive in the extreme and have very little tolerance for mere mortals doing anything to diminish thier glory. Lèse majesté is not at all tolerated and must be addressed summarily.
At the very least...
a) Any cleric of any of the dieties he's ever cursed will find that thier beneficial spells no longer help him. Any god he's ever cursed will not heal, cure, or ressurect the blasphemer nor suffer thier followers to do the same until the blasphemer has made suitable atonement.
b) Any of the dieties servitors will begin with a hostile attitude toward the character. That could be a problem if the characters ever run across say a Planetar.
c) Any action that the character undertakes which could effect the dieties portfolio will be regarded hostilely.
d) The portofolio of any of the deities he's ever cursed will become hostile to the character. So for example, if he curses a fire god, you may expect that he'll never be able to start a fire under duress, and that any fire he does start (or even gets near) will either mysteriously sputter out (if needed) or else mysteriously spread (if unwanted). If he curses a sea diety, ocean travel will always be disasterous. If he curses a god of horses, then horses will thereafter respond hostilely to his presence, and so forth.
If he's a prominent individual whose behavior could potentially sway others (in earlier editions if he's 9th level or above), then even that would be considered too light of punishment and more direct intervention is likely. I'd give it a 1% chance per incident that the diety would respond immediately, and a greater percent chance if the incident occurred within the dieties sacred sites or places of worship.
As for how I'd handle this...
Normally, I'd warn the character in and possibly out of game the first time this came up. Having a hostile relationship with even a single diety is really putting a heavy burden on yourself, but if the character understood the consequences it could make for interesting RP. However, literally no mortal can afford to have a large number of Gods offended at them. If you follow the above suggestions, you are more or less dooming your player and I would not advocate changing your play style radically because that wouldn't be fair to the player. Instead, assume that the PC is just becoming powerful enough to garner notice and pick one diety as the one that has become offended. If he doesn't take the hint, start adding more. Eventually you may want to approach the player in private to see if this is really the story he wants to create. Enemy of the gods is definately an 'epic destiny' but as Prometheus or Tantalus or even Oddyseus could tell you, it doesn't usually work out well.
Last edited:
Orius
Unrepentant DM Supremacist
Well, that's a 3e baseline.
In older editions, gods can basically hear whatever the DM wants them to hear. It's the DM's call to determine exaclty how the gods respond. The god can zap him with some random 10d6 lightning bolts if offended, send some powerful servant to chastise the PC, or send an avatar. It also depends on the god involved. Pelor is likely to send a deva, planetar, or solar to tell the PC to cease and desist, with the whole celestial awe powers in full use. St. Cuthbert would probably send an avatar to smack the PC upside the head with his stick and wash his mouth out with soap. Hextor would probably send some devils out to kill him, maybe even sending an avatar along if the PC is strong enough. If you don't want to get that heavy handed, you could use a proxy or something else that delivers a very stern warning backed up with bestow curse, or have the god directly curse the PC with all sorts of die roll penalties until the PC gets an atonement from one of the god's clerics.
In older editions, gods can basically hear whatever the DM wants them to hear. It's the DM's call to determine exaclty how the gods respond. The god can zap him with some random 10d6 lightning bolts if offended, send some powerful servant to chastise the PC, or send an avatar. It also depends on the god involved. Pelor is likely to send a deva, planetar, or solar to tell the PC to cease and desist, with the whole celestial awe powers in full use. St. Cuthbert would probably send an avatar to smack the PC upside the head with his stick and wash his mouth out with soap. Hextor would probably send some devils out to kill him, maybe even sending an avatar along if the PC is strong enough. If you don't want to get that heavy handed, you could use a proxy or something else that delivers a very stern warning backed up with bestow curse, or have the god directly curse the PC with all sorts of die roll penalties until the PC gets an atonement from one of the god's clerics.
In older editions, it is the GM's call.
However, consider this - if the gods had a tendency to hear curses and prayers and deal with them directly, that would be a big deal - the game world would have stories about this happening. If the GM hasn't already warned the PCs with such stories, it is reasonable for the players to assume that such stuff is extremely rare.
Basically, I don't think it fair to change the rules on the characters mid-stream. If the gods were apt to make things personal, that should have been part of the original design of the setting, not something added in just to penalize a player with a habit.
However, consider this - if the gods had a tendency to hear curses and prayers and deal with them directly, that would be a big deal - the game world would have stories about this happening. If the GM hasn't already warned the PCs with such stories, it is reasonable for the players to assume that such stuff is extremely rare.
Basically, I don't think it fair to change the rules on the characters mid-stream. If the gods were apt to make things personal, that should have been part of the original design of the setting, not something added in just to penalize a player with a habit.
rossik said:
First off, this isn't a rules question - this is a question about the kind of game you and your players want to be in.
My experience has been that most players absolutely hate to have their characters pushed around, bullied, given orders, etc. Having a god (or its minion) show up just because a character's schtick is cursing the gods probably won't be taken well. If it's just a way for the player to make his character a bit different, let it go.
If you must do something, I recommend making it a roleplaying challenge/opportunity for the player. If the character acts in a disrespectful or profane way in front of other characters who care about such things (such as clerics of the deity he is cursing), they may not be willing to help him with healing and such. It could cause difficulties if he's involved in any political plots, or in negotiations. Then again, what if the character is in a bind, and followers of one of the gods he curses help him out - asking nothing in return except that he reconsider his actions in the future? Maybe the character will change, maybe not, but it's the player's choice in how things develop.
Mark Hope
Hero
What characters say to gods: "Thor, great and mighty Thor, hear me lord of thunders. Lord Thor, grant your humble servant now your blessing, that he might bring vengeance upon your enemies. Many have blasphemed your name, great Thor, but if you strengthen my arm, they will learn the meaning of folly! This I ask in your name, mighty Thor."
What gods hear: "Thor, blah blah blah Thor, blah blah blah blah blah. Blah Thor, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah Thor, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah! Blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah Thor."
(With thanks to Gary Larson
...)
What gods hear: "Thor, blah blah blah Thor, blah blah blah blah blah. Blah Thor, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah Thor, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah! Blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah Thor."
(With thanks to Gary Larson
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