What do I want? An apology.

[Ourph]

Except again, it focuses on the negative rather than the positive. It's a poor business decision--the people demanding an apology aren't gonna switch anyways, and as said above, those on the fence certainly don't need a reason not to switch.

I'm not debating whether it's a good business decision (we obviously don't agree on that one). I'm just pointing out that the statement "There is nothing to apologize for." is inaccurate. Companies apologize all the time for disappointing their customers, so some people expecting or wanting an apology isn't out of the ordinary.

As for why they should bother to apologize to people who are disappointed... They should apologize because it's the polite thing to do. In a business based on a hobby where having fun, interacting socially and making friends is part of the appeal, I'm constantly astounded at the number of people who underestimate the importance of politeness, empathy and good manners.

 

[Ourph]

An apology from a company is a business decision.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[atom crash]

I'm not debating whether it's a good business decision (we obviously don't agree on that one). I'm just pointing out that the statement "There is nothing to apologize for." is inaccurate. Companies apologize all the time for disappointing their customers, so some people expecting or wanting an apology isn't out of the ordinary.

As for why they should bother to apologize to people who are disappointed... They should apologize because it's the polite thing to do. In a business based on a hobby where having fun, interacting socially and making friends is part of the appeal, I'm constantly astounded at the number of people who underestimate the importance of politeness, empathy and good manners.

On the other hand, every decision made is going to disappoint someone. Especially in a niche market where every consumer feels some sort of ownership over the product.

[Just take a few seconds to look at previous threads about WotC books in order to find examples: people upset because a certain book doesn't appeal to them, and are unhappy because resources dedicated to that book/setting/whatever means resources not allocated to another book/setting/whatever that may appeal to them.]

The company that spends its time apologizing for every business decision isn't going to be left with any time to do actual work.

If WotC had decided to lay Dragon and Dungeon to rest and not offer any alternative vehicle for that content, then an apology would be warranted. However, they have decided to cancel a license for a product in order to offer what they feel is a better product.

 

[Atavar]

Because you're being emotional and not logical, and because it isn't that simple?

Exactly.

Also, even if WotC is cancelling the mags to try and force us mag subscribers to switch to their DI.... SO WHAT??? It's their property to do with as they wish. If WotC feels that they will make more money with just the DI than with both the DI and the mags, then they are simply making what they hope turns out to be a smart business decision, and they have nothing to apologize for. It's not a matter of screwing over anyone. Period.

And I do get the difference between "we're sorry we're cancelling the mags" and "we're sorry you're disappointed." Frankly, I find most apologies like the latter pandering, condescending, insincere, insulting, and almost always pointless.

Take care,

Atavar

 

[JohnSnow]

What is dishonest about WotC saying "We are sorry you are disappointed."?

If I miss my friend's birthday party because my mom is in the hospital, I go to that friend and apologize. I say, "I'm sorry I missed your birthday party. My mom was in the hospital." That doesn't in any way imply that I mean "I'm sorry I missed your birthday party. My mom was in the hospital. It was a mistake to choose my sick mom over your birthday party.". I made the right decision, but I'm still sorry that I disappointed my friend on his birthday.

But this isn't REALLY an apology. You're expressing regret for making a decision that disappointed your friend.

The thing is that you're saying WotC should apologize for the act of canceling the magazines (which they haven't done), not express regret that the magazines are being canceled (which they've already done).

So far, WotC has basically said:

"Dragon and Dungeon are being cancelled, and will ship their final issues in August. We know this seems like a radical step, and we'll miss the magazines too, but we think you'll be very pleased with what we have coming online to replace them.

"However, we aren't ready to talk about what that is yet, and we think the folks at Paizo deserve your undivided attention until the magazines end their run.

"We know it's difficult to say goodbye, but stick with us, there are good things in store."

That's about as close to "regret" as anything I can think of. They aren't going to apologize for replacing the magazines with something they see as better, anymore than Toyota apologizes for changing the design of an existing car.

That would be especially true if the DI involves web releases subcategorized like:

Dragon SEPTEMBER '07
<articles>

Dungeon SEPTEMBER '07
<articles>

But that's just me speculating.

 

[loki44]

They should apologize because it's the polite thing to do. In a business based on a hobby where having fun, interacting socially and making friends is part of the appeal, I'm constantly astounded at the number of people who underestimate the importance of politeness, empathy and good manners.

This is not very Mingol-like of you.

There is nothing impolite about change my dear. What manifestation of bad manners and/or lack of empathy are you perceiving here?

 

[Ourph]

The company that spends its time apologizing for every business decision isn't going to be left with any time to do actual work.

I'm not debating whether it's a good business decision (we obviously don't agree on that one).

But this isn't REALLY an apology. You're expressing regret for making a decision that disappointed your friend.

I'm sorry, but the above seems to be a non sequitur. The dictionary definition of "apology" is "an expression of one's regret".

The thing is that you're saying WotC should apologize for the act of canceling the magazines (which they haven't done), not express regret that the magazines are being canceled (which they've already done).

Ummm, no, I'm specifically NOT saying that. In fact, the first sentence of the post that you quoted above says exactly what I've been saying all along. Please actually read what I wrote (for example, post #96 above) before putting words in my mouth.

 

[Ourph]

This is not very Mingol-like of you.

There is nothing impolite about change my dear. What manifestation of bad manners and/or lack of empathy are you perceiving here?

I really don't think I've been unclear about that in this thread. I'm certain if you go back and read my previous posts you will see that I'm not asserting that change is impolite and will be able to find the answer to your question quite easily, as I've said it at least three times now.

 

[Felon]

While I agree, I hope you're not implying that this action by WotC was shady, immoral or lacking in personal responsibility.

By all means, let's stop implying and lay our cards on the table. WotC killed the off a (relatively speaking) popular, long-lived magazine dedicated to supporting our hobby, one that was growing more successful with every passing year, not less. This was not putting on old cow out to pasture; it was the premature extermination of a healthy, beloved organism.

You may not agree with what follows, but what I just said is pretty much a given.

Now, why was this done? In order to eliminate the magazine option for the consumer. Instead of allowing the DI succeeding on its own merits, WotC decided to limit our options to DI or nothing. As Ryan Dancey said, they decided that their customers can just be taken for granted because ultimately they'll be dragged into whatever business model WotC decides on, even if it's kicking and screaming.

Note that when Morrus posed the question of why co-existence wasn't an option, the responses in no way, shape, or form answered the question. Total evasion of the issue.

Shady, immoral, irresponsible? There's a case for all of that for the indignation-prone.

 

[Ourph]

And I do get the difference between "we're sorry we're cancelling the mags" and "we're sorry you're disappointed."

THANK YOU!!! Where would you like me to send your tip.

Frankly, I find most apologies like the latter pandering, condescending, insincere, insulting, and almost always pointless.

Then I can see why you might not be interested in an apology. However, as you've demonstrated yourself to be a perceptive human being, I'm sure you can understand how someone else who feels differently than you might appreciate such a thing.

Personally (while I don't think I'd find such an apology condescending or insulting) it would be pointless in my case as well. An apology wouldn't make any difference to me, but I can see how it might be an important gesture for others.