D&D 5E What do you do when your players are gunshy?

[GMforPowergamers]

Ok so we have had a problem in my Tuesday night game for almost 5 years now.

We start a game/campaign strong. We have some great adventures, then at some random point the players just stop adventuring.

The normal answer I have is to say "OK, so lets start a new campaign."

This time though the situation has gotten MUCH worse.

My campaign is set in the fictional setting of the Highlands. The PCs are members of the Knights of Highland, and are the prophesied heroes. The main plot is about a Demonlord who has been sealed away and may be coming back... the secondary story is about an artifact that the gods themselves want put together so it can be used to destroy it self... there are also sub plots about the under dark, an assassins guild, a group of insane dragons that live on the moon, and an under dark cult of demon binders...

So a few games ago I let them dictate the adventurer a bit. They retrived an artifact from the demon lord Grazzet, but decided they didn't want to fight him... so when they fled I just let them go. The next game they were attacked by insane dragons from the moon they had pissed off, and they told me in no uncertain terms they were sick of dragons... so with that they were sent down to the demon cult in the under dark. They got there umpteenth level buts handed to them by 3-4 CR 3 drow, because of bad rolls. They retreated and decided to switch gears. So they went to the kingdom of the Ice giants to get the 4th of 5 pieces of the artifact... and winter wolves did a number on them, then they took out what I thought was an impossible encounter (6 cr8 frost giants lead by a Cr 10 frost giant fighter). then they get to Castil Chill the home of King Jarrl of the Icelands were the piece of the artifact is... and this is were everything goes south.

SO they bumble around a bit, fight and kill 2 frost giant sentries, who yell and raise the alarm. So they retreat and watch as security is increased. They finally sneak in (with a mix of fly spells and stealth) and they find in the highest tower of ice, his vault.

the vault is a death trap, but they circumvent it and get into it just to find it is empty.... he designed the vault as a genre savvy villain. He keeps the artifact not locked away, but in his pocket... One PC screamed " it, I quite... my character is leaving I'm not fighting the king of the giants" and the Players out of game got into a fight.

of the 4 players here is what I was told...

1) They are sick of fighting monsters... but they don't want to bog down in politics either...
2) We should start a new game, since we only do good at low level games... then 1, and 3 disagreed that they want to see the game keep going, 1 for story and 3 because he likes high level games.
3) got mad and basicly said that this editions monsters have too high of damage and PCs too low of hit points... he is playing a swordlock, and he went into a fight with 2-3 damage on him, got hit by 2 normal hits and a crit and was drop unconscious... (1st hit 3d12+6, 2nd hit 3d12+6, then crit 6d12+6) he thinks it's insane that a cr 8 monster can drop 39 damage on a non crit, followed by fiftysomething on a crit...
4) then player 4 said "Well if this were 3rd edition I would go invisible, sneak in and steal the artifact, but 5e doesn't let you go out on your own..."

the out of game fight was the entire last hour of the night. I said "Look if we aren't having fun we should just switch campaigns" and that did 0 good since 2 of the 4 players want to keep going, and a 3rd now is saying the entire edition is bad...


so last night I talked (well texted with 1 talked with 1 and was on our campaign wiki with the other 2) to the four of them and they all are digging there heels in. No one knows what to do next. I pointed out that the game is very boreing if everytime there is a setback they fall back. None of them agreed. I pointed out that they out of game as a group have said "I don't want to do that" to almost everything... but they don't see it that way...

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Shiroiken]

You and your players obviously have some serious problems as a group. You need to figure out what you and each of your players expect from the game, and see what you can do to compromise. It's also possible that you're not compatible as a group, and one or more might be better off seeking adventure somewhere else.

Things to consider:
1) Is 5E is best system? Can it be modified from it's base game to fit the needs and desires of the group? The options in the DMG are good guidelines for this.
2) What is the "sweet spot" for the group? This would be a range of levels that are the most fun (for example, 5-12 was often considered the sweet spot for 3E).
3) Which of the 3 Pillars (Combat, Exploration, Social) should be the primary focus? What other game aspects (Investigations, Politics, Economics, etc.) are enjoyed and which are despised?
4) What style of play is enjoyed? The two biggest options to consider is Sandbox vs. Story, sometimes called Active vs. Reactive. In Sandbox gaming, the DM designs the world and a few plot hooks, and the players choose what to do. In Story gaming, the DM has a narrow adventure idea, and the players follow it through to the end. Most games fit somewhere between the two extremes, and it's good to determine where everyone wants to be.

I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. Good Luck!

 

[AriochQ]

Without being there, it is very hard to determine the best course of action.

My initial thought is, take a break. Let someone else DM a stand alone or two, maybe in a different game system.

My second thought is, from reading your description it appears the players may feel railroaded a bit. You have several campaign goals, none of which they chose. When players feel that way, it takes away much of the enjoyment of the game.

If it was my campaign, I would speak with the players and have them each come up with a specific character driven goal, which could have nothing to do with the current campaign story arcs (i.e. A rogue wants to set up a thieves guild, an fighter seeks retribution, etc.). I would then spend some time developing those arcs and see where they lead.

After many years of DM'ing, I have learned not to be too tied to the story I want to tell. D&D is cooperative storytelling, be sure the players get to tell that story too.

 

[seebs]

It really sounds to me like they want to Do Something Else. So let them? It sounds to me a bit like you're working hard to maintain a Level Of Challenge which is not what they want.

I had a GM who ran these epic amazing combats, and they were fun... except that was every combat. You couldn't have an occasional easy fight because you prepared and planned well. There was always something that made it just on the edge of too hard.

And that was really frustrating!

So it sounds to me like they really don't want to fight the tough stuff, so... don't make them? Let them go beat up something else. Let them do peaceful stuff or research and not get totally bogged down in politics. Let them fight stuff that's easier for them instead of being really hard.

 

[iserith]

There can be a lot of stress for folks around the holidays, so I would take that into consideration when examining why things escalated in the fashion you describe.

I don't tend to have these sorts of issues, but if I did, I would probably make the next session a board game and discussion night. Bust out a game that's on-theme like Lords of Waterdeep or the like, share a good meal and some drinks, then encourage everyone to offer their ideas for how to proceed with D&D with an emphasis on consensus building. Everyone's going to have a give a little to get a little.

Based on your numbered list, I would present the group with something like the following. I would most definitely not do it over email, text, forum, or any other medium other than face-to-face discussion, preferably while breaking bread:

"I agree we have been fighting a lot of monsters. That's D&D for you though - it's a game of adventurers confronting deadly perils, right? However, there are two other pillars of the game that perhaps we could focus on in addition to combat - exploration and social interaction. In fact, I can make it so every challenge involves all three pillars so you can choose to overcome it however you like. So, for example, you could defeat the monsters and get the McGuffin or you can sneak in and get it. Or perhaps talk your way into achieving your goals. It'll be more open-ended this way and, if you want to avoid that high damage from monsters, you'll have options.

"We can start some new characters at mid-heroic tier, but have them tied into the tale we've created thus far. This way, we're not starting at 1st-level so you have some options, but not too many, and we're not abandoning the story that at least some of you like. Perhaps these new characters are allies of your current characters or even opposed to them in some way. We can play this for X number of sessions or levels and then revisit going back to our higher-level characters at some point, especially if it makes sense for them to appear in the story again like say after a major victory by your new characters that impacts the goals of the old characters.

"What do you think?"

 

[Sacrosanct]

As others have said, you really need to talk as a group and see what people want out of the game. Maybe go to a different edition or RPG every now and then to let that player who wants something different get their fix in as well. Maybe take a break in general. For your player that says he can't sneak in and steal an artifact, find out why he thinks that, since you very well can do those things in 5e.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Did the players say what they want to do, or just what they don't want?

You could take a break, or switch systems for a short campaign of something different. Maybe see if one of them wants to DM. One thing I find gets people's attention is a module. People like that sort of novelty, in my experience.

If it's the difficulty level, you could definitely lower the overall challenge level - as seebs said, sometimes it's good to have an easy encounter where the PCs get to be awesome.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

It sounds to me like it's time for one of your players to have a go at being the DM, because I seriously doubt they have the slightest idea how difficult they're making this for you. Seriously, it's someone else's turn to put up with this BS. You've had enough.

Just remember to be a good sport and don't whine like they did when things don't go well. But of course you're always allowed to say "I told you so." They're totally asking for it.

Alternately: tell them you'll fix everything, you promise, just one more game guys, no problem, it'll be perfect this time!

Then TPK their sorry butts.

 

[GSHamster]

It really sounds to me like they want to Do Something Else. So let them? It sounds to me a bit like you're working hard to maintain a Level Of Challenge which is not what they want.

I had a GM who ran these epic amazing combats, and they were fun... except that was every combat. You couldn't have an occasional easy fight because you prepared and planned well. There was always something that made it just on the edge of too hard.

And that was really frustrating!

So it sounds to me like they really don't want to fight the tough stuff, so... don't make them? Let them go beat up something else. Let them do peaceful stuff or research and not get totally bogged down in politics. Let them fight stuff that's easier for them instead of being really hard.

I agree with this. I think you've pitched the difficulty a bit too high for your standard encounter. Scale it down a bit, and maybe they will have more fun.

Alternatively consider adding an explicit "your PCs don't die" rider. Like if they "die", they're only knocked unconscious. That might reconcile them to taking more risks.