What do you do with a cheating player!

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Because you're the DM? Personally as I player I'd rather know nobody else was cheating, even if it made the game go slower.

I see what you mean! I don't really want to come out and say why I'm doing this. I supose 'just because', is a reasonable answer.

I've played in the same group with this guy before... it is frustrating. I'm pretty sure everyone knows about it. Chatted with a couple of the other players about it, but it's not a general discussion topic.

Had a thought: I'm tempted to make this particular player a 'DM helper' - perhaps get him to keep track of initiative - not much room for dodginess and that way he can sit nearby, where I can keep an eye on him?

 

[Kyramus]

In my game, I told players that they can choose a surface to roll on. Most choose books or table or on their character sheets. They roll and it stays on that surface, so that I can see the results and continue.

I have been known to call for d20 rolls for no reason. They think it's for spot or listen but it's just to throw them off. If a player fudges all the time, even with fake rolls. Then you can confirm it was the player. Finally if he continues to fudge, the other players will see it since you want to see the results and unable. If he picks it up nanoseconds before you can see it, then tell him to rll it again. It does not count if you didn't see the results.

The only thing you have to watch for is a deliberate grabbing of the dice cause it's a low roll and they are doing it just for the re-roll.

I've rolled all my dice in the open with my players. If they start to cheat, I tell them it's either on the table where I can see it, or I put up my screen and you won't see the critical hit coming.


If it persists, it might be time to pull him to the side and have a one on one talk. Make him understand that you notice this attitude, and that you aren't like the other DM who gunned down his character, that you are impartial and youw ant it fair for everyone. If he/she doesn't want to listen to this arguement, then it would be better off to let them go find another group.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

One problem with directly talking to the cheater... they will deny it and you won't get anywhere.

Rolling dice in plain sight is one way to go and is probably the easiest. Another thing you could do is hand everyone at the beginning of the game a spreadsheet with about 30-40 cells on it. Have them roll their d20s in advance and then you can use those rolls for combat, skill checks, saves, or whatever. Just mark off the boxes as you go. If you have the time you could roll all of the d20s for them, let them look at them, and then take them back and use them for the game. Your players might actually like it since they can sit back and roleplay and not bother with the majority of the dice rolling.

One of the things I liked about OD&D is that sometimes you'd want to roll high, and sometimes you'd want to roll low. You could screw with cheaters with that system.

DM - "Roll a d20 for me"
Cheater - "Why?"
DM - "Never you mind, just roll the d20"
Cheater - "Hoody-hoo! I got a 19!" (really rolled an 11)
DM - "Well that was a Dex check to see if you slipped and fell from the slippery algae growing on the path. Your Dex is a 16 so you failed by 3 points. You slip down the path into the waiting claws of a troll who gets a free round of attacks on you since you are prone at his feet."
Cheater - mutters something unintelligible

 

[noretoc]

I had a player who still does cheat from time to time. I found the best way to handle it is to talk about a cheater in another game. I spent time telling about this other game I was in where these two guys cheated like crazy, getting 20s for every roll of init, and never missing. I talked about how it wasn't any fun, and how they didn't trust thier DM not to kill them, and how it is lame to have to cheat at a role-playing game. By the time I was done every player was agreeing with me, even the cheater. Now he rarely cheats.

 

[Piratecat]

I supose I could say I needed to see all the dice rolls for some reason... anyone got any ideas why I'd need to do that?

It sounds like you really don't want to confront the player in private. That's unfortunate, because it's probably the best tactic, but if you prefer not to do that then put rules in place that make cheating more difficult.

I'd tell the group "One of the things that frustrated me in previous campaigns was that I didn't always see all die rolls. In this game, no roll will count unless I can see it rolled and it's rolled in clear sight on the table. That should eliminate any confusion as people play with their dice before their turn."

Be aware that in my experience a player who cheats on his dice is really likely to cheat in other ways - futzing modifiers, changing money and xp totals, and so forth. Make sure you have an accurate copy of his character sheet.

 

[Henry]

I'm about to start running a new campaign and one of my players cheats. A lot.
I'd like to stop him doing this, it annoys me when I'm trying to run a game... I like to let the dice fall where they will, but it's rather difficult with this sort of shenanagins going on.

Has anyone got any (sensible) suggestions? Dealt with this before?

It's not Morrus, is it? (this is assuming you're the same Al I'm thinking of)

Seriously, The best alternative as I see it is to have a personal chat with him - not with the whole group, because it may seem too much like some kind of weird intervention. Just discuss that you've seen him messing with his rolls, and it's getting to the point where it's getting kind of obvious to the whole group. Don't use the word "cheating" as that is a harsh word and you don't want to lay down the law just yet. Just use "messing with", "spoofing", "fibbing", or whatever works for you. Just lay it on the line that it's no fair for the other players, and that you want all of you to have fun. See if you can get him to agree that, if he gives you as DM a fair shake, you'll give him fair treatment. Be as friendly as possible, because you're two friends talking about a disagreement at this point, not two adversaries.

If he runs from it or hides it, then you and the rest of the group have to decide one of two courses: either put up with it, or lay down the law with him. If you lay down the law, you simply have to tell him that his messing with his rolls is no fun for anyone, and he needs to stop. He'll need to roll with at least one witness, or you'll have to start rolling for him. It he can't accept that, then he won't be invited back.

It depends on whether or not he's worth keeping. The above assumes he's VERY worth keeping, as implied in your post.

Please note that my suggestions are based on my own personal experience, and implies no guarantee - in fact, my suggestions may be void where prohibited by law.

Good luck.

 

[aliensex]

The answer to all of life's questions is rather simple:

A boot to the head.


Or, if you're one of those peace lovin types, you could cheat back at him. No one out cheats a DM!

Just start having monsters hit him, a LOT more than anyone else, and he can't seem to succeed at very much at all. If he asks about it, suggest if you all rolled in one spot (even you) out in front of everyone, then maybe everyone's luck would seem to even out.

If that fails, see the first option above.

 

[Grazzt]

I'd tell the group "One of the things that frustrated me in previous campaigns was that I didn't always see all die rolls. In this game, no roll will count unless I can see it rolled and it's rolled in clear sight on the table. That should eliminate any confusion as people play with their dice before their turn."

Be aware that in my experience a player who cheats on his dice is really likely to cheat in other ways - futzing modifiers, changing money and xp totals, and so forth. Make sure you have an accurate copy of his character sheet.

That's how I'd do it. And if anyone asks why...."Just because I am the DM." 'nuff said.

And PKitty is right. It has been my experience that players that cheat on their dice rolls tend to cheat else where...just like PKitty said. Hell, I once had a player cheating on stuff like that and when I saw his character sheet, he had all his magic items alphabetized...straight from the 1e DMG.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

It sounds like you really don't want to confront the player in private. That's unfortunate, because it's probably the best tactic, but if you prefer not to do that then put rules in place that make cheating more difficult.

I would like to. If it was a passing or new player, then I would have done it by now. Unfortunately, I think it would really make this particular person mad - they're a good friend and I don't want to fall out with them over a game.

Also, like Calico_Jack73 said, I think he'd probably deny it. So that'd leave trying to catch him red handed in a session in front of everyone else... which is something I'd really wouldn't want to do with anyone. Far too humiliating, IMO.

I supose it could be worth a go. Aside from annoying his fellow players, I'm fairly sure this sort of behaviour can't be doing them any good. I could try tackling it with a 'some player in another group was doing this...' story?

I'd tell the group "One of the things that frustrated me in previous campaigns was that I didn't always see all die rolls. In this game, no roll will count unless I can see it rolled and it's rolled in clear sight on the table. That should eliminate any confusion as people play with their dice before their turn."

Be aware that in my experience a player who cheats on his dice is really likely to cheat in other ways - futzing modifiers, changing money and xp totals, and so forth. Make sure you have an accurate copy of his character sheet.

I'd agree - normally the two go hand in hand. Ironically, I've checked before and as far as I can tell he's scrupulously honest about everything except the dice rolling. He reads (and uses!) rules properly, bookeeps properly, etc. It's not natural, I tells ya!

 

[Treebore]

I am an open confrontation kind of guy. Just tell the whole group that you want to see everyone's dice rolls because you want to know nobody is cheating. The non-cheaters should have no problem with this. The cheater doesn't dare show he has a problem wiht it. So everyone will say "OK" and then you go on.

Piratecat is right. When they are cheaters they tend to cheat in many ways. Insist on having copies of their characters, with all resources listed. You need this anyway, to make sure you design encounters they can beat. Also house rule that if it isn't on your copy of their character it doesn't exist. This is to motivate them to keep their character record updated for you. This also covers you when the cheater tries to cheat. "Sorry, that isn't on the character sheet."

Of course the trick there is to tell them how you have another copy of their character on your computer, so that you will look "over" their changes when you input it into the computer. Gives you an original copy they can't alter.

All of these will conspire to make the cheater "afraid" to cheat. After all, it is something they do not want to get caught at. If they are afraid they will get caught, they are less likely to do it.

If you ever do confront them do not give them room to deny it. Cite specific rolls you know they cheated on, or other specific things to "prove" you know they cheat. Then go on talking to them like it is irrefutable fact. Their conscience will make them quit denying it. Then you might find out the real reason for their cheating.

You can make a cheater stop cheating. Eventually, you won't even have to watch them any more. Hopefully your friend isn't a "die hard" cheater. They will never quit cheating, even after they have been caught several times. Those you have to deal with in whatever way you are willing.