What do you think about magic item creation times?

We had a house rule formula we used for a few years where time was equal to the square root of the market price divided by 20. (Scrolls and potions were according to Core rules).

That means the cheaper items take longer and the more expensive items take less time.


We dropped it recently since we were moving more towards core only and the campaigns themselves were more hostile to item creation in general (lots of timed adventures and lack of major towns and bases for crafting - i.e. Savage Tide or Red Hand of Doom).
 

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Something I yoinked from a friend's campaign - you can brew multiple doses of the same potion at the same time, up to 1000gp per day. Doesn't affect everything, but does make potions from being a much greater time sink then everything else.

Cheers,
=Blue
 

Hussar said:
How often do you see players actually crafting magic items? In all the time I've played 3e, I've only run into a couple of players who wanted to craft anything other than maybe a wand. Sword? Armor? Bugger that, who wants to waste a feat that you can never benefit from?

I've never seen a player craft anything more than a few thousand Gp item. Is it that common in your games?

Yes. I have a sorcerer in my game who makes wands at higher caster levels and with metamagicked spells. I've also played a priest of a smith god and so took craft armor and weapons. Made my own magic warhammer, I did.
 

Okay, I should probably explain my POV a little better - I don't want to see the crafting times drastically reduced, but maybe a modest reduction. I'm working on a system whereby crafting times are somewhat standardized for different items types, and modified by the market prices - it roughly halves crafting time, except for epic items, which are reduced to about one-quarter (but if we didn't use the x10 gp multiplier, would also be about half).

Simple? Who said that making +10 Armour should be simple? If magick was a simple thing, then everyone would be doing it. If it was simple to make a magickal item, everyone would have a +1 can opener.

Okay, bad choice of words. I guess I meant simple in that it's only a set of magic armor.

In general I have no problems with the magic item creation rules. A case could be made for one shot items being made in less time (in fact I think it would be workable to make batches of cure light wound potions that could be divided into seperate containers).

I like this idea - I'll have to see if I can work it into the rules.

I've never seen a player craft anything more than a few thousand Gp item. Is it that common in your games?

I don't think it's common in anyone's game, really. We rotate DMing duty among the group (three people do it), so one campaign is high-magic - some of the PCs have made a few items; one's low magic - the party mage took a bunch of feats and made most of the items the party has (and as a result, he's lagging about 2 levels behind everyone else); and one's low-mid magic - no item creation there.

A lot of folks have said that it's good for enforcing downtime - good point, and I agree. Our high-magic DM often lets us have some time off to do stuff; he usually just hand-waves the time ("The fighter and rogue spend a month getting drunk and starting bar fights, while the cleric spends the time making his staff of the python.") or has the non-crafting PCs doing other things - in that campaign, our PCs often have their own agendas, so it's easy to handle this.

But... if you're making lots of magic items (with or without reduced time), you're not going to get to L20 in a few months of game time, simply because you're burning tons of XP. Also, there is (I believe) a built-in limiter to making magic items - you can't lose a level from burning XP. I can't find the rule for this, so I posted it over in the Rules forum, but let's say it's true - if, every time you get enough XP to make something, you immediately burn it off. You'll have lots and lots of magic items, but you're not going to advance very quickly, and chances are you're going to be broke on top of it.

I guess my question should be: Do you think magic item creation should be more accessible to the PCs, in terms of costs in time, gold, XP, etc.? Some of you have already said they want to see their players making more magic items, and some say no. Out of the half-dozen or so characters I've made since starting to play d20, only one of them has taken an item creation feat, and that's only because he (a wizard) developed a bunch of unique spells, then invented a staff to cast some of them. I'm with Hussar - I've got better things to blow my feat choices on, even as a wizard (especially since he took a PrC and doesn't get bonus feats).
 


Kerrick said:
I recently got a copy of the Artificer's Handbook, and that led me to look over my variant artificing rules, and I wondered - are the creation times too long?


I think this is one of the governors built into the game rules that regulates the advancement speed of characters, particularly wizards, toward the idea that they should be generally older.
 

Blue said:
Something I yoinked from a friend's campaign - you can brew multiple doses of the same potion at the same time, up to 1000gp per day. Doesn't affect everything, but does make potions from being a much greater time sink then everything else.

Cheers,
=Blue
I like this. While I don't have a problem with item creation times in general, the fact that you're stuck brewing only one measly potion in an entire day just never sat well with me. It is, after all, an item you drink- why can't you just "multiply the recipe" as it were? It's not like even a 1st-level Cleric can't cast multiple Cure Light Wounds spells in one day, after all!

Implementing this change for potions, scrolls, and other similar items (such as psionic tattoos and powerstones) just plain makes sense. Maybe it should work this way for any one-use expendable item, regardless of the feat used to make it- for instance, is it really necessary to limit the mage to making only one "Tree" Quaal's Feather Token in a day? :\
 

I never had any trouble with manufacture times really and when I did, i thought they were too little. Three years for a near atifact level items seems about right. To be honest, I have more issue with the amount of gold* and XP** spent on such items. If it came up, I'd probably house rule it so that any of the three can be done away with either through power components or increaseing the other requirements.

* What exactly does it go towards and why can't my character make, gather, or obtain those materials? How do tribal shamens make items when they don't have money to begin with?

** Simply bad game design that does not mesh well with the past or current rule set. Leads to weird situations where the newly leveled character can't make any items for no in game reason.
 

paradox42 said:
is it really necessary to limit the mage to making only one "Tree" Quaal's Feather Token in a day? :\
I think it is. Those trees last forever as compared to the 10 minutes a level of the spell that makes the item. The 400gp cost is paltry for the amount of gp PCs and NPCs can throw around.
 

Kerrick said:
I've never seen a player craft anything more than a few thousand Gp item. Is it that common in your games?
I don't think it's common in anyone's game, really.
Do you mean anyone-you-know "anyone," or anyone "anyone?" Because it's definitely common in my games!
 

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