What do you think of poison in d20

[Turanil]

Well, I am considering implementing some Poison rules of my own for Castles & Crusades. As such I could either do it AD&D 2e way (most poisons have a varying onset time and deals points of damage), or I could do it D20/3e way (immediate ability score temporary damage followed by additional damage 1 minute later). However, I don't know what to choose: AD&D 2e was bland (just damage points), and 3e I used only once (as a DM) so don't know what to think of it. :\

So I would like to know your opinion (do you prefer AD&D 2e or d20/3e poisons); and I would like to hear some anecdotes about you as a DM or PC having used poison in adventures.

Thanks.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The benefit with 3e poison is that it remains a significant danger at all levels. I don't care who you are, you're going to be affraid of that 1d10 CON damage, and that cleric better be fast with his spells. This saps rescources and creates challenges even when a party has the rescources to deal with the problem. 2e poisons dealing points of damage could be largely ignored by some higher-level characters who could just suck it up and continue on with their lives. Those 3e poisons that cause unconciousness or such are an added danger, because this stops you from taking care of the poison before it has run its course.

Though I gotta admit I have a bit of a soft spot for how Final Fantasy poison works, because it's really good at creating drama and tension -- you are dealt a little bit of hp damage every time you take an action. You can live with it, but it makes you more vulnerable to other problems (like taking damage from a monster), and can cause some unexpected need for the party at inopportune moments.

 

[S'mon]

Well I never really used 2e poison, in 1e it was usually save-or-die. I don't miss that, but I miss weak poisons that just did hp damage for a bit of added lethality; eg derro poison save or +2d6 damage, I'll probably use that again. One thing I think 3e needs for poisonous animals is listed limits on the number of times/day they can inject poison, I'm thinking 3/day for most. Possibly combine that with increased ability damage for the weaker ones. I don't much like the instant onset of poison - in 1e/2e w 1 minute combat round it was a reasonable handwave, but 6-second animal venom in 3e I don't like, I think I might just make all poison 1 minute onset, with the secondary effect at maybe 2d4 minutes or more.

 

[Khorod]

The 3ed way is better, IMO. One thing that's lacking in core rules is variety and higher intensity poisons. Non-magical poisons that have a near certainty of hurting a 5th level character are ridiculous.

So I'd expand the number of poisons, and maybe alter a bunch to have a slightly randomized onset time if that appeals to you.

There are a number of resources out their on poisons. I haven't purchased any, but just persuing the free bits released online or flipping through books on the store has broadened my sense of 3ed poison possibilities greatly.

Hmm, it occurs to me that if you make the average adult level 3 instead of level 1, you should probably boost all poisons DC's by 2.

 

[Thanee]

I like the ability damage poison (Con for lethal). Works really well.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Psion]

I can think of ways to improve it, but going back to prior editions isn't one of them.

In general, for combat modelling, I think it works fine, but it doesn't really model the effect of poison over long periods of time. Sean Reynolds has a variant on his website that addresses this.

 

[diaglo]

save or die.

 

[satori01]

Modeling in 3e is better, as you can brew some really strange posions that can effect mental stats,("The green fanged winged serpent has a posion that places people into a mental stupor"etc, etc).
Con damage is extremely lethal, and oddly enough does more damage the higher level the character is. All Characters must fear the Con damage potential of any monster.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

The changes to how poison works are one of my favourite changes to D&D. Every party, at virtually every level, has some fear of poison. When I hit a PC with some arrows and then say 'Make a Fort save DC 14!' the entire table pauses and watches that roll. Every single time! It is a great bit of tension in combat without the lameness of the old crappy 'save or die' nonsense.

 

[diaglo]

...the entire table pauses and watches that roll. Every single time! It is a great bit of tension in combat...

saving throws have always had that pause. that dread. that waiting to see how you rolled.