D&D 5E What do you think would balance Expertise on Attack Rolls?

[Stormonu]

It's very powerful, but I could see it being used as #4 (a fighting style choice) for something like the Champion or Kensai subclass. Specific to one weapon, not type - like Longsword.

 

[Mort]

So you recognize that attacks already win the arms race, but want attacks to win the arms race even harder?

Again, just drop monster AC and boost monster to-hit modifiers. No need to add subsystems that would need to be balanced.

I'm not. You'll note my while point (in the ordinal post) was that attack expertise isn't necessary or likely desired.

 

[DeviousQuail]

9. Raise the floor instead of the ceiling using reliable talent instead of expertise. Treat rolls of 2-X as X+1. You can still mess it up with a 1 and as long as your chosen X value isn't too high it won't break anything.

 

[FarBeyondC]

I am curious, what do you all think would balance Expertise on Attack Rolls?

1. Have it only be for the first attack in a round?
2. Have it be a Short Rest Power?
3. Have it be a Long Rest Power?
4. Have it only be usable for a certain weapon type (similar to Specialization in previous editions)?
5. It cannot be balanced and shouldn't be thought of?
6. Don't let it be available to every class, just a select few, such as the Paladin; Ranger; Warrior?
7. Have it be a Feat that needs to be purchased with certain requirements met?
8. A combination of several things?
9. I have another idea!

I am curious, what do you think?

8. Definitely 8.

If it's only for a single attack roll, then it's technically weaker than the level 2 Guided Strike ability the War Cleric gets. Restrict it to a number of times per short rest, and it should be fine.

I could also see it (if it worked on every attack) being a low-level spell affecting one creature for up to a minute on a failed save.

You could give it to the ranger as an always there capstone, instead of (or in addition to) Foe Slayer, to make them really good at fighting their favored enemies.

Similarly, make it a feature of sentient weapons that have known enemies.

 

[jgsugden]

Doubling your proficiency bonus on attack rolls means different things for different PCs.

On a Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter PC, it would be huge.

On a monk, good, but not game breaking.

On a wizard, it would be fine.

As such, I'd go with 8 and say you need to consider the context of granting it to determine what you need to do to balance it.

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

Doubling your proficiency bonus on attack rolls means different things for different PCs.

On a Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter PC, it would be huge.

On a monk, good, but not game breaking.

On a wizard, it would be fine.

As such, I'd go with 8 and say you need to consider the context of granting it to determine what you need to do to balance it.

That's a great point. Be nice to know what this was being designed for.

 

[auburn2]

I am curious, what do you all think would balance Expertise on Attack Rolls?

1. Have it only be for the first attack in a round?
2. Have it be a Short Rest Power?
3. Have it be a Long Rest Power?
4. Have it only be usable for a certain weapon type (similar to Specialization in previous editions)?
5. It cannot be balanced and shouldn't be thought of?
6. Don't let it be available to every class, just a select few, such as the Paladin; Ranger; Warrior?
7. Have it be a Feat that needs to be purchased with certain requirements met?
8. A combination of several things?
9. I have another idea!

I am curious, what do you think?

I have a few ideas that would balance it:
8. Combination of 1, 4 and 7.
9 .Eliminating ability bonuses on the attack roll when you use it
9. Letting it replace divine smite for Paladins and tie it to spell slots
9. Let it replace extra attack for classes that get extra attack for any character and be at will. This would be a wholesale replacement of the ability, not something you pick on your turn. So a 5+ level fighter has double proficiency but can never attack more than once (unless hasted, action surge, TWF etc).
9. Take a -5 damage when you use it (the opposite of the GWM/SS feats)

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I am curious, what do you all think would balance Expertise on Attack Rolls?

1. Have it only be for the first attack in a round?
2. Have it be a Short Rest Power?
3. Have it be a Long Rest Power?
4. Have it only be usable for a certain weapon type (similar to Specialization in previous editions)?
5. It cannot be balanced and shouldn't be thought of?
6. Don't let it be available to every class, just a select few, such as the Paladin; Ranger; Warrior?
7. Have it be a Feat that needs to be purchased with certain requirements met?
8. A combination of several things?
9. I have another idea!

I am curious, what do you think?

It would be fine as a battlemaster maneuver, so short or long rest power fine. If you have to spend the power before making an attack, I think it would actually be technically worse than Precision Attack.

Should not be be granted as a flat bonus usable as many times as you want.

If you're making it more available than precision Attack maneuver, I might limit it to non-heavy, non-ranged weapons.

 

[Blue]

I'm with all of the others about that the concept doesn't work if available with any regularity with bounded accuracy.

I'll illustrate by going the other way. You're talking about adding in an extra +PROF difference between normally proficient characters and expertise characters. That same amount of difference is available for everyone to see in 5e already - it's the difference between using a weapon you are proficient in, and using a weapon you are not.

Now, please tell me throughout all of 5e you've played, how often have you seen weapon-wielders intentionally choose and use non-proficient weapons on a regular basis? If your experience is anything like mine, that's pretty much zero. Because it's a huge change. Well, that's the same difference this would add in.