What does a company have to do to lose you as a customer? To win you back?

[Aeric]

White Wolf lost me when they came out with "World of Darkness 2.0." From everything I've seen, it's just a rehashed version of WoD 1.0, and a poorly-rehashed one at that. Even so, if WW came out with a decent book tomorrow, I would still buy it. However, it would take a lot of convincing (and reading) before I would buy it, as opposed to the Good Old Days when I would buy a book simply because it was produced by WW. That trust, that assumption of quality product is gone.

WOTC is beginning to lose my business as well. I don't buy too many WOTC books these days, except for setting books like FR and Eberron. I can't imagine buying an entire hardcover book dedicated to adventures in a certain climate, much less something like Weapons of Legacy, which (IMO) should have been an article in Dragon Magazine.

In both of these cases, however, it's more a matter of quality of product than anything the company by itself does. I suppose maybe if I discovered that a company uses child labor to put together their books, I might boycott them. Then again, I'm pretty callous, so who knows.

 

[Professor Phobos]

I suppose they'd have to kill a puppy or something.

White Wolf lost me when they came out with "World of Darkness 2.0." From everything I've seen, it's just a rehashed version of WoD 1.0, and a poorly-rehashed one at that. Even so, if WW came out with a decent book tomorrow, I would still buy it. However, it would take a lot of convincing (and reading) before I would buy it, as opposed to the Good Old Days when I would buy a book simply because it was produced biy WW. That trust, that assumption of quality product is gone.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the nWoD (as I think it is better in every possible category than the oWoD), but if you're looking for a high-quality new WW book that'll prove useful for an oWoD campaign, check out Mysterious Places. It's fantastic, and genuinely creepy. More useful for a mortals campaign than anything else, of course, but it's probably the finest horror RPG book produced this year, or even in the last two years.

 

[Li Shenron]

So, what would a company have to do to lose you? And then possible more importantly, what do that have to do to get you back?

The best thing that any company can do to lose me as a customer is lie to me.

It happens, that I buy a product which is advertised as something and turns out to be not what I expected, or has a little trick hidden into the advertisement... Such things make me seriously furious, and it's nearly impossible for them to make up for such a mistake :\

It irritates me because it is allowed by the law to "slightly" deceive the customer into thinking that e.g. (1) you really need to buy something, or (2) a normal product is a special product, or just to hide a very bad product from what it really is. Misleading advertisement is largely immoral (especially when it is applied to toys or other children-targetted products!!), but we are told by the law that it is allowed, that ethics should apply to customers but not companies

In any case, I've never been angry with RPG companies specifically. No RPG books advertisement really deceived me, and there is always the possibility of a preview which should be a consumers' right for any product.
So even if a RPG company published a total crap, it won't "lose" me just because it's a bad book. I'd know beforehand that I shouldn't buy the book, so there's no reason why I should hold a grudge against their future products.

 

[S'mon]

Hmm... it's a difficult question. I tend to buy from a company, then drift away. I might come back again later. It depends on how I feel about them.

WoTC - the D&D 3e core mechanics seemed very good, though I never liked the art; the 3.0 MM especially seemed uninispired but Tweet's core mechanics were what brought me back to D&D. At $20 each the 3.0 core books were great value, anyway. I bought the 3.5 PHB but not DMG & MM. I've never really enjoyed other WoTC books I've bought though - I guess the Manual of the Planes was ok, Psionics Handbook seemed *bleah*, Bastion of Broken Souls looked boring & lifeless. I just don't like the general attitude of WoTC stuff and I haven't bought any for years. I'm mildly tempted by DMG 2 & Heroes of Battle, but worried they'll be more of the same. HoB would in theory fill a need I've felt for a long time, so I must be feeling pretty burned not to be getting it.

Troll Lord Games - I bought Lost City of Gaxmoor many years ago, despite its flaws I enjoyed it a lot. Nothing else of theirs tempted me until Castles & Crusades and Hall of Many Panes. I love the C&C PHB, despite the errors. I was less impressed by C&C Assault on Blacktooth Ridge, but I haven't given it a fair shot yet. HoMP wasn't at all what I was expecting, its series of completely arbitrary situations/puzzles with no real justification except "Xagy says so" I found a big turn off. I will return to HoMP in some months or years and see if my feelings have changed. Right now I am probably going to get more C&C stuff but am much less likely to invest in more Gygax stuff.

Necromancer - I bought Necropolis by Gygax years ago, which turned out to be a disaster. I didn't buy Necromancer stuff again for years. In hindsight this was a mistake - it wasn't Nec I had a problem with, it was the Gygax style (see HoMP above). Recently I bought Lost City of Barakus by W. Kendower (sp?) & it's been great. Very recently I bought Siege of Durgams Folley, which looks fantastic - it's Mike Mearls' only Nec module, so I may go check out his Malhavoc work. I bought Vault of Karin Larr a couple days ago, also by W. Kendower, it looks ok so far but can't really comment yet.

 

[S'mon]

Continued:

Mongoose - I have bought tons of Mongoose stuff, I've spent more on them than any other 3e publisher. Their generic D&D stuff is like junk food, trashy but tasty. The Pot Noodle of 3e. Their licensed products (Slaine, Judge Dredd, Conan et al) get far more attention, they are expensive but very good quality, apart from the editing/proofreading. Ian Sturrock (Slaine, Conan) is a brilliant author IMO, I would look for his stuff again. He is no longer employed by Mongoose. I expect that if I were to buy their (eg) Starship Troopers game it would be expensive, top quality, and the proofreading would hopefully be better than spellb.ooks Conan, anyway.

Avalanche Press - nice t&a covers helped with sales. They no longer do 3e stuff.

My conclusion: It's all about the authors, more than the companies. I have bought on name recognition - Gygax's Necropolis & Hall of Many Panes - and been disappointed both times. In hindsight I should have realised that while I loved most of his Gord books I had hated his Setne Imhetep stuff, and I should have been much warier. Whereas other authors I didn't know have turned out to be great - Ian Sturrock, Mike Mearls. So, I guess what a company can do to win me back now is offer things that look usable IMC (Necromancer wins hand-down on this), and things by authors I know are good (Sturrock, Mearls, Tweet judging by the PHB, Aaron Allston for old pre-3e stuff, maybe Ken Rolston likewise). Conversely, other authors I will now be reluctant to buy again - I would have bought Gygax's Yggsburgh without hesitation if I'd been happy with HoMP, now I'm unsure, yet on balance the Gygax name is still an asset (I guess I'm a sucker for celebrity). And I know Monte Cook's style just doesn't fit my idea of what D&D is about, so I'd be very unlikely to buy anything by him.

 

[Berandor]

I need to feel I can trust a company's product and use it without double-checking everything.

For example, I really love Kalamar - its style, the idea behind it, the atmosphere. I still consider the Kalamar Setting book to be one of my best purchases. I bought the Player's Guide, and I still use some of its ideas and rules (for example, priest advancement). But on a whole, the PG looked to me as if Kenzer hadn't really grasped the rules, at least half of them being unbalanced, or worse, simply awkwardly constructed. I bought "Iron Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali", and this adventure only strengthed that feeling, with 50% chances to detect something, and similar leftovers from previous editions. So Kenzer lost me. To win me back, I'd have to see several reviews for several different products that say they improved their mechanics.

But Kenzer also suffers from my lack of enthusiasm for D&D/D20 in general. Otherwise, I'd probably have bought their monster book and their villain design book anyway. But since I don't buy many d20 books (even less if you substract the less-than-10$-PDF purchases), I have to be very picky. And I am

 

[MonsterMash]

Oh, it's also possible--but difficult--for a company to lose me simply by doing stuff that I consider stupid, or pandering. Avalanche lost me with their constant cheesecake covers on supposedly "historical" supplements. I have no problem with cheesecake, believe you me, but when it turns into blatant pandering--and inappropriate for the product, to bood--I draw the line.

They haven't "lost me" as thoroughly as others; if they put out something that intrigued me, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. It would have to be really intriguing, though.

I always hated that with Avalanche, again no objection to cheesecake, but context is everything.

If I'm a bit doubtful about a product or company then I'll wait for reviews and word of mouth to see whether its worth my money, rather than buy sight unseen. About the only company I'll buy stuff from without seeing it in advance is Necromancer Games, and then its only certain products that I know I'll have a use for, not everything they produce.

There is nobody that I will not buy from absolutely at the moment, as even though say Mongoose sometimes are prone to poor editing, they have released some good products like Conan RPG and its supplements or Mighty Armies. If there is one publisher that I buy very little from its WotC as most of the stuff they release prompts a 'meh' from me, but I will sometimes buy Dragon or Dungeon as Pazio seem to be making an effort.

 

[BWP]

Engaging in what I consider to be unfair business practices, or (in the case of owners) just being the sorts of people--personally and professionally--that I cannot bring myself to deal with on any level. I'm not going to name names, because I don't want to start a flame war and because it's not professional, but there is indeed a company that has lost me as a customer for precisely that reason. As far as winning me back? I can't imagine anything short of completely brand-new ownership that would do it.

The above encapsulates my attitude completely. There's one game company (boardgames, they don't produce RPG products) who I will not deal with for the above reasons.

I have no beefs with any current RPG company ... at the moment I'm pretty much only buying WOTC D&D books and FFG Midnight books and they're keeping me happy (and poor).

 

[S'mon]

BTW this thread has just inspired me to cough up £14.50 for Classic Adventures Bundle (Penumbra) because it has a Mike Mearls scenario "In the Belly of the Beast".

 

[Akrasia]

With one exception (Unearthed Arcana) I have not purchased a WotC book since the 3.5 'update'. That move annoyed me enormously -- and I made a point of not supporting it financially. (Thankfully Mongoose published the 'pocket' versions of the PHB -- I used that for the 3.5 campaign I DM'ed last year. The 3e DMG always struck me as largely useless, so I just used the 3.0 version when necessary.)

My irritation with WotC has largely faded away by now, and I would consider buying a new product by them, but nothing I've seen in recent months has interested me in the sleightest. If they produce something that I like in the future, I would likely buy it.

Aside from WotC, no RPG company has really annoyed me.

...My conclusion: It's all about the authors, more than the companies...

Quite correct. I tend to look out for certain authors more than companies..