D&D 5E (2014) What does "give away your location" mean?

[ccs]

I hate to start another thread about stealth, but

No you dont.
Because if that were true? Then you'd have discussed this with your DM - you know, the guy who's opinion is vital to this question - & not pulled the proverbial pin on a grenade that'll result in a 50 page thread of uselessness.

 

[Springheel]

No you dont.
Because if that were true? Then you'd have discussed this with your DM - you know, the guy who's opinion is vital to this question - & not pulled the proverbial pin on a grenade that'll result in a 50 page thread of uselessness.

Hey, thanks for the pointless snark. And extra points for presuming to know more about a perfect stranger than you actually do.

For your information, I am the DM.

Everyone else, I appreciate the useful advice.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

(which raises a tangential question: if the to hit roll's at disadvantage if someone knows you're in there how is it handled when the shot is purely speculative?)

You get double disadvantage! Which is... disadvantage!

 

[Jester David]

"When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting a creature you can hear but not see....When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." (PHB p.195)

I hate to start another thread about stealth, but this is really, really specific.

A character is hiding, heavily obscured by either darkness or deep foliage. They shoot an arrow at a target that they can clearly see.

When the above quote says "give away your position", that only means that enemies can target you now, correct? It doesn't mean they can actually see you, because you are still heavily obscured. Which means your attacks continue to get advantage until you are no longer considered heavily obscured?

It literally means just that. 5e uses plain language.
You give away your position. You reveal your location to the enemy. You make it known where you are.

The enemy knows you're there. They know what direction you struck from and are now listening for movement or signs of passage. They can't see you, but can target your space.

 

[Shiroiken]

I actually had this come up today. During a rather large battle, there was a Drow Mage with Greater Invisibility cast. Whenever he cast a spell that had an origin point (magic missile and lightning bolt being the two most common), the players knew the point of origin of the attack. They knew the square he was in at that point, but if he moved afterwards they didn't know exactly (but could get an idea if they were close when he moved). The party adjusted their AoE spells to include some of the potential area, and he was eventually outed when the battle started to come to a close (only two other enemies were left).

 

[Lanefan]

You get double disadvantage! Which is... disadvantage!

Which is kind of what I thought, though it makes no logical sense that a (quite literal) shot in the dark has the same chance of hitting as a shot at an unseen but known target.

 

[ProphetSword]

Which is kind of what I thought, though it makes no logical sense that a (quite literal) shot in the dark has the same chance of hitting as a shot at an unseen but known target.

I would say it really doesn't.

Having a known target would mean that you at least know what square they're in, even if you're firing with disadvantage. When you don't know what square they're in, it's an automatic miss. But again, that assumes you know something is there in the first place.

According to the PHB (page 196), a target with total cover can't be directly targeted by an attack or a spell. Which means you have a 0% chance of hitting them, doesn't it?

So, really the chances aren't the same.

 

[Hriston]

You're hiding in a shadow at the base of the castle wall at night while a fight goes on in a firelit area nearby. Nobody knows you're there until you fire an arrow into the fray. Now, anyone who cares knows there's someone over that way somewhere...probably in the shadows...but as you're still in the shadow nobody can actually see you (they're looking from a lit area into a dark area). They can shoot the shadow but they don't know where you are within it, hence the disadvantaged roll. Or they can charge into the shadow and probably find you pretty quickly.

They do know where you are. You have given away your location and are no longer hidden. The disadvantage is due to not being able to see you, but your location is now known and will be tracked until you hide again.

The reason they can target you at all is because you've given them something to target. I mean, before you take your shot someone could always put an arrow into the shadow just for the hell of it without ever knowing you're in there at all, but they don't have anything specific to target. (which raises a tangential question: if the to hit roll's at disadvantage if someone knows you're in there how is it handled when the shot is purely speculative?)

You can always guess a location to target. If you choose wrong, you don't hit anything (at least not the target you were after). If you choose correctly, the shot is still at disadvantage due to the target being unseen.

 

[jayoungr]

Now, anyone who cares knows there's someone over that way somewhere...probably in the shadows...but as you're still in the shadow nobody can actually see you (they're looking from a lit area into a dark area). They can shoot the shadow but they don't know where you are within it, hence the disadvantaged roll. Or they can charge into the shadow and probably find you pretty quickly.

I like this idea because it gives the melee folks an advantage over ranged. Any situation that does that helps keep the game interesting.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Which is kind of what I thought, though it makes no logical sense that a (quite literal) shot in the dark has the same chance of hitting as a shot at an unseen but known target.

Yes, but it is a simplification, AND it's assuming that you chose to shoot into the exact space where there IS a target. If you really are just shooting "over there somewhere" there is either NO chance, or a randomly determined chance (whichever the DM prefers) that you even need to roll with disadvantage.

I was kidding about the double-disadvantage, really.

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