What does it take for an RPG to die?

[darjr]

 

[Thomas Shey]

If you read the anecdotes and the counter-examples in this thread, it seems to matter. The idea seems to be that a game is not dead for as long as someone is playing it. Many criteria in the OP revolve around the personal experience which may, as we all know, vary a lot. My point was: those are not good criteria, because we don't know and we cannot know.

You have a good point, though. If you look RPGs as an industry, a game could be considered dead, if it was not a viable business, e.g., it would not provide full time employment for more than one or two or however many people. Outside of the few exceptions, RPGs are a cottage industry to begin with, so through the requirement of full time employment much of the scene would appear dead. Maybe it is, we just don't know it yet. Some of the ideas brewing in it will probably survive. It's like architectural styles.

The problem with that is that definition would have made most games DOA; they never supported more than a couple people at a time. Like you say, its always been a big part cottage industry.

I mean, as far as I know Fragged Empire and its offshoots is one guy, and has never been anything but one guy. At most he's hired some freelancers for some elements.

 

[aramis erak]

One example of a dead game in my experience is Continuum: Roleplaying in the yet. It was an already niche game from the start, its one planned splatbook never got published as far as I know, and I never see the game being discussed.

Reichstar was similar - a techbook was planned but never materialized. Plus, it's subject matter has caused it to be seen as a dogwhistle - but it's a game about fighting the Nazis in a few centuries on in an alt history where they won WWII... and have a hyperdrive. Or, at least, that's the stated goal by the authors.

Solid mechanics (essentially, convert GURPS Light to a 2d20 roll). Edgy setting material. No follow-up materials I can find.

So, how do you know a game is dead? You have no way of knowing that there are no solo gamers or isolated groups somewhere playing the game. You might have problems finding players for a particular game, but somewhere on a Pacific island or in Western Elbonia there might be a vibrant community. You just don't know. Proving the negative is, well, difficult.

To have meaningful discussion about the death of role-playing games, the criteria of death would have to be something people can agree on and that can be verified.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie"

I thought The Arcanum by Bard Games was dead. I bought the game sort of by accident in the 1980s and never saw anything relating to it anywhere. Then, another company bought the rights for the game and launched a successful Kickstarters a few years ago. Is this a case of resurrection or just hibernation? If a game blooms only once in, say, 17 years, we have no way of knowing if it is one or the other.

There were several books for the Arcanum - under the name "The Atlantean Trilogy."
The relaunch was a fan who bought rights to the mechanics, but was unable to get the setting rights. It's a faithful relayout with only minor changes, save the removal of the setting-distinct Druas.

According to one definition, language is dead when it no longer has native speakers. "Once a language is no longer a native language—that is, if no children are being socialized into it as their primary language—the process of transmission is ended and the language itself will not survive past the current generations." [Wikipedia]

I would argue that MERP and Star Wars WEG are dead games: the publishers have ceased to exist and/or lost the license, and the current IP licensees do not have IP for the original games. As commercial products these games are dead. A dead commercial product is less likely to attract new gamers, and similarly to a language without native speakers, it is less likely to survive past the current generation of hobbyist. It is not impossible that somewhere down the line they are revived, but that means restoring to life something that was dead as a commercial product.

In the case of Star Wars, the licensor holds rights to the licensee's works. Same for Star Trek. Not all work that way.
Note that the reissue of WEG Star Wars 1e wasn't an issue of obtaining the rights, but convincing LFL that it would make money.

Note that C7 got rights from GW to keep the FFG versions up in PDF.

On the other side, Fox has typically let RPGs stay up in PDF until a new licensee... Eden Studios is essentially comatose, but BTVS, Angel, and Army of Darkness are still up in PDF (As is the non-licensed AFMBE). Fox just wants their share of the royalties.

 

[Jd Smith1]

As much as I love Rolemaster (I am planning to it probably next year) it might not survive the competition for the attention beyond the generation that was introduced to it in its heyday. It did well against its competition back then, but now there is at least 30 years of new ideas and games and other ways to spend time to compete with. As a business, it is certainly smaller than before going the way of the buggy whip. Some of the ideas that were pretty new at the time, like open ended rolls and detailed criticals, will probably survive in one form or another.

RM will never die.

 

[dbolack]

Reichstar was similar - a techbook was planned but never materialized. Plus, it's subject matter has caused it to be seen as a dogwhistle - but it's a game about fighting the Nazis in a few centuries on in an alt history where they won WWII... and have a hyperdrive. Or, at least, that's the stated goal by the authors.

My copy of this dissappeared a few years ago, it was part of my "bad examples" game collection. My memory of it was it was a little too kind to the Nazis, even with it being a rebellion game..

 

[SnTamara]

An RPG table game "dies" when players lose interest or stop showing up. Key factors include poor game design, lack of updates or campaign progression, a GM who isn't engaged, or if the group becomes too inconsistent. Competition from other games or life distractions can also cause the game to fizzle out. Sometimes, however, a dedicated group can keep the game alive through homebrew content or regular sessions.

 

[Thomas Shey]

An RPG table game "dies" when players lose interest or stop showing up. Key factors include poor game design, lack of updates or campaign progression, a GM who isn't engaged, or if the group becomes too inconsistent. Competition from other games or life distractions can also cause the game to fizzle out. Sometimes, however, a dedicated group can keep the game alive through homebrew content or regular sessions.

Isn't that more about how a campaign dies than a game, though?

 

[dbolack]

RM will never die.

With the right roll on the right crit table....

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

With the right roll on the right crit table....

I see you've been playing RuneQuest.

 

[SableWyvern]

I would argue that MERP and Star Wars WEG are dead games: the publishers have ceased to exist and/or lost the license, and the current IP licensees do not have IP for the original games. As commercial products these games are dead. A dead commercial product is less likely to attract new gamers, and similarly to a language without native speakers, it is less likely to survive past the current generation of hobbyist. It is not impossible that somewhere down the line they are revived, but that means restoring to life something that was dead as a commercial product.

I agree with with your bolded part -- they're definitely dead as commercial products. Without that disclaimer, though, I definitely don't believe either game is dead in any meaningful sense.

More to the point, a game being considered dead or not makes zero difference to me, so if people want to define a game as being dead at a particular point, I guess they can, but I find the distinction meaningless.