D&D General What Does New Coke Tell Us About Designing for D&D

[Remathilis]

I do the following:

0e: OD&D
1e: 1e AD&D
1.5e: 1e AD&D post Unearthed Arcana
2e: 2e AD&D
2.5e: Skills and powers
3e: As it says.
3.5e: As it says
4e: As it says.
4.5e: 4e post Essentials
5e: As it says.
6e: 2024. I can see the argument for this being the half-edition, but its been 10 years since the release of 5e and this feels more like a major revision along the lines of the 2e revision where, things where things looked largely compatible and could be used interchangeably but there were major shifts in tone and minor across the board changes that made it a new game. It doesn't feel like the 3.5 release which felt more like errata. This is more like, "We want to get rid of demons and devils because we don't feel they are good for the brand, and paladins never should have been a thing anyway."

BECMI I see as an entirely separate and now abandoned branch of development.

I go by core books. That is, can you play the game without any further books

1: OD&D LBB
2: Basic Set (Holmes/Moldvay/Metzer) + RC (Allison)
3: Advanced D&D PHB/DMG/MM
4: AD&D 2nd edition PHB/DMG/MC
5: D&D 3e PHB/DMG/MM
6: D&D 3.5 PHB/DMG/MM
7: D&D 4e PHB 1/DMG 1/MM 1
8: D&D Essentials HoFR/FK /RC /DMK /MV
9: D&D 2014 PHB/DMG/MM
10: D&D 2024 PHB/DMG/MM

Using those core books, you can play a complete game of D&D and it will play differently than the ones before and after it. Some are more compatible with the previous one than others are.

But I reject that 2024 is any more different than Essentials or 3.5.

 

[TheSword]

When a company gets past a certain size many, if not most, people may like their jobs but it's rarely something they're "passionate" about. Do you really think that the accountant who's job is critical to the company or the janitor or the guy figuring out logistics is "passionate" about what they do?

Some people may be passionate about what they do and as far as I can tell the people working on the writing books and create artwork for D&D are passionate about it. That doesn't mean the majority of people who support those tasks (and yes, that includes management) are.

EDIT: I also don't think you need to be "passionate" about something in order to do a good job at it or to provide a good product. I would also say that if you think most small businesses aren't out to (ethically) maximize profits I would say you've never worked with small businesses before.

I think it’s easy to get cynical but passion makes a huge difference to a persons ability to do the job! I genuinely believe if you don’t love your job (or at least 66% of it) then you’ll never be as good at it as you could be.

I’ve seen team become extremely passionate about their jobs. Whether you’re accountant wanting things to be as accurate as possible, or a cleaner who really like looking after the staff. I’ve seen receptionists who love making people feel welcome. I’ve also staff who are going through the motions and couldn’t give a damn. But there is a difference. A lot of that is about how they are treated, recognised, rewarded, developed, and respected.

I also think that a person who has no passion for their current job might have it for something else. I’ve seen a lot of mid life career changes that have worked out brilliantly.

 

[TheSword]

Of course not. My issue is always how much are you willing to sacrifice to maximize profit?

Surely a good rule costs the same as a bad rule.

Or are you frustrated that 5e is too popular and you would prefer it was more to your taste even if less people would buy it?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Surely a good rule costs the same as a bad rule.

Or are you frustrated that 5e is too popular and you would prefer it was more to your taste even if less people would buy it?

Well of course I would prefer the game I've been playing and engaging its community with for over 30 years to be more to my taste. Who wouldn't?

 

[TheSword]

Well of course I would prefer the game I've been playing and engaging its community with for over 30 years to be more to my taste. Who wouldn't?

The second bit… though less people will buy it… is the rub.

 

[Oofta]

I think this view is pretty cynical. Passion makes a huge difference to a persons ability to do the job! I genuinely believe if you don’t love your job (or at least 66% of it) then you’ll never be as good at it as you could be.

I’ve seen team become extremely passionate about their jobs. Whether you’re accountant wanting things to be as accurate as possible, or a cleaner who really like looking after the staff. I’ve seen receptionists who love making people feel welcome. I’ve also staff who are going through the motions and couldn’t give a damn. But there is a difference. A lot of that is about how they are treated, recognised, rewarded, developed, and respected.

I also think that a person who has no passion for their current job might have it for something else. I’ve seen a lot of mid life career changes that have worked out brilliantly.

Maybe you just have a different definition or threshold for "passionate" than I do. I've had different positions where I was more or less excited about a particular opportunity but with very rare exceptions I always endeavored to give my best. Some of my best days were ones where I looked at the time and wondered where the time had gone because I had been so immersed. But passionate? I think it can be a mistake to think, or expect, to expect to be passionate about work. I've never lived to work, I've worked to live.

Work can be rewarding, fulfilling, something we want to do and get better at without being passionate about it. At least to me.

 

[TheSword]

I first learnt about the importance of passion when reading Jack Welch’s book. He said:

“People with passion have a heartfelt, deep, authentic excitement about work. They care–really care in their bones–about colleagues, employees, and friends. They love to learn and grow, and they get a huge kick out of people around them doing the same. Do I bring an intense enthusiasm towards all aspects of my life?”

I’m lucky enough to believe that most of the people I work with have this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The second bit… though less people will buy it… is the rub.

Personally I would be ok with that. Or even better multiple games, but not one that's 100x more popular than the others.

 

[Krachek]

New coke analogy can fit 4ed, but to claim that 5.24 will be a disaster is playing prophet of doom.

 

[Oofta]

I first learnt about the importance of passion when reading Jack Welch’s book. He said:

“People with passion have a heartfelt, deep, authentic excitement about work. They care–really care in their bones–about colleagues, employees, and friends. They love to learn and grow, and they get a huge kick out of people around them doing the same. Do I bring an intense enthusiasm towards all aspects of my life?”

I’m lucky enough to believe that most of the people I work with have this.

And if that just doesn't fit your personality type or what drives a person? I assume you don't mean it, but it feels a bit condescending to say that you have to be passionate about your job to be good at it.

I've always been a top performer, lead teams, been quite successful But I wouldn't consider myself particularly passionate about my job. I liked my job and I'm glad I chose it as my profession but passionate? No. Maybe it's my midwestern farmer attitude. On the other hand if "passionate" just means "enjoys and are good at" I think it cheapens the word passionate.