what does Vancian mean?

[Mokona]

I thought Monte Cook did good job of explaining vancian (as Gary Gygax's spin on the spellcasting from the works of Jack Vance) in Legends & Lore:

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Putting the Vance in Advanced)

 

[Mircoles]

To me it means crappy magic system.

 

[Henry]

To me it means crappy magic system.

To me it means <falsetto voice>Awesome!</falsetto voice>

If they have figured a way to mix vancian with encounter-based recharge, and make both attractive to use, I will sing their praises.

 

[Tortoise]

and they wanna go back to that, ugh

I highly recommend getting your hands on a copy of the collected Tales of the Dying Earth and give it a good read. I suspect you will find it entertaining, and it will give you a solid understanding of where many of the D&D tropes are from or at least where the influence that is behind them is from.

Even if you prefer a different mechanic in the game it still is worth the time to enjoy a fun read.

I just finished the collection and find myself thinking about getting Vance's Lyonesse collection.

And like Morris, I find Vancian style magic a good fit for D&D.

 

[Tortoise]

so than are they completely going back to that system or will it be more of a cross between 3e and 4e or do we not know yet?

We don't really know yet. They want to be able to have both and maybe other options as well. The designers are very early into working on it so even when the open playtest starts I doubt we will have anything solid for how it will finally shake out.

 

[Tortoise]

To me it means crappy magic system.

Lucky for you then that they have already said it won't be the only option.

While I have my personal preference, obviously so do you and others. I'm glad they are at least trying to give each of us the tools to make the system work for all of us. A tough task. I wish them luck.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

so than are they completely going back to that system or will it be more of a cross between 3e and 4e or do we not know yet?

I get the impression from everything that has been said is that it will be like 3e. In that some classes will use Vancian spellcasting and some won't. However, I get the impression that if you want to play a Wizard, you WILL be using Vancian spellcasting only. And that if you want, for instance, a power that works like an at-will, you'll have to spend a feat to get it.

In fact, the more I read about this edition, the more it sounds like it's 3e all over again with the ability to scale back the complexity to a level similar to 1e or OD&D.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I just finished the collection and find myself thinking about getting Vance's Lyonesse collection.

Lyonesse is good, but not at all "Vancian" in the D&D sense. It has a more classic take on magic. If you want more Dying Earth style, check out Michael O'Shea "Quest for Symbolis" (sp?).

D&D being able to emulate the rull range of Vance's fantasy would actually be a pretty good measure. That wouldn't cover everything, but it would cover a hefty chunk of what you ought to be easily able to do in D&D.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

One of the illogical parts of Vancian magic is the limit to the number of spells you can "know" at any given time. It would make more sense if it was the number of spells you could "know" at any given time. In other words:

Why can't I memorize/cast/memorize against the same slot throughout the day?

I think the answer is probably intended to be fatigue, but that's always felt like a tacked on explanation to me. (If you really want a fatigue mechanic, use spell points and ignore the memorization meme all together.)

To move D&D "Vancian" magic ever so slightly towards the magic in the late Dying Earth books, you can answer that objection easily. Simply allow a caster to refill the slot anytime they want and have one empty, but really enforce the nature of the spellbooks. They are unwieldy, incredibly valuable, and frequently contain only a small assortment of spells each. You can't reload a spell out in the field, because you can't risk having the spell book with you.

To make that more palatable in D&D, allow the "traveling" spell books, but with one spell per book, and only enough information in them to "recharge" a spell you already know but have cast. That is, wizard utility is pursued strategically only, not operationally. He makes strategic plans from his tower or other safe location, and then decides to carry a very small number of expensive "traveling recharge" books in order to top of his operational capabilities after use. This encourages the wizard to have as wide a spread as possible at first, but his slots will become increasingly limited to his bread and butter options as time in the field continues.