what does Vancian mean?

[Libramarian]

Nitpick: it isn't actually "memorizing" and "forgetting" so much as it is pre-casting spells so you can release them quickly in combat; think of it less like "I suddenly don't know how to cast fireball anymore..." and more like carrying around a pistol with 3 bullets, a grenade launcher with 2 grenades, and a rocket launcher with 1 rocket--you know how to fire all of them, but you can't fire the rocket launcher twice until you get some more ammo.

This is made more clear (and more flavorful) in the original Dying Earth series, where the setting is post-apocalyptic, spells are complicated almost-intelligent constructs that want to be cast, anyone with the willpower to control them can prepare spells, and someone who can hold 6 spells in their head at one time is a very impressive spellcaster.

When I hear memorization I think working memory, not long-term memory. So you know a spell like you know somebody's phone number you've just heard, until you're momentarily distracted, and then you forget it.

I thought for a while that Jack Vance must have read "The Magic Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two" (famous '50s psychology paper arguing that we have the capacity to hold 7+/-2 concepts in our working memory at once), but I looked up the dates and found the Dying Earth was actually published earlier!

 

[am181d]

One of the illogical parts of Vancian magic is the limit to the number of spells you can "know" at any given time. It would make more sense if it was the number of spells you could "know" at any given time. In other words:

Why can't I memorize/cast/memorize against the same slot throughout the day?

I think the answer is probably intended to be fatigue, but that's always felt like a tacked on explanation to me. (If you really want a fatigue mechanic, use spell points and ignore the memorization meme all together.)

 

[fuzzlewump]

Fourth edition has Vancian magic, too, of course. I wish people would stop saying it doesn't.

Fourth edition also has less-limited magic, too.

Arguably more Vancian Magic, actually, since every class essentially uses powers like a Vancian wizard. (Fire and forget Fighter Dailies, etc).

 

[Morrus]

Fourth edition has Vancian magic, too, of course. I wish people would stop saying it doesn't.

Fourth edition also has less-limited magic, too.

Not in this context it hasn't. "Vancian Magic" in D&D terms is colloquial shorthand for "the magic system that 1E-3E (and older editions) used as default". 4E doesn't use that system.

It's not an accurate term. No colloquialism is. It's shorthand.

 

[Grimmjow]

so than are they completely going back to that system or will it be more of a cross between 3e and 4e or do we not know yet?

 

[Bedrockgames]

I want them to, too. I like it. It adds an extra resource management dimension to playing a wizard which I find enjoyable.

I am very much in the same camp. One of the things I look for in a game of D&D is that classic tome of spells with vancian casting. If I want more fleibility or options I go to runequest (which is also a great game). But the magic system if the first three editions gives D&D a unique feel and flavor that works for me.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm sorry but I had to speak up because it seems everyone here has been terribly misinformed. The real origins of this style of magic comes from the movie Ghostbusters. Gygax was a huge Bill Murray fan, and loved his "Peter Venkman" character in the movie. He especially found the beams from their proton packs inspiring, basing the "prismatic spray" spell on their look. "Vancian" is actually pronounced like "Venkman", but when he tried to coin the term "Venkian magic" Columbia Pictures threatened to file a lawsuit against him so he changed the spelling just enough to get by... and thus was born vancian magic.
.

This is an award winning post. Well done sir.

 

[Bedrockgames]

so than are they completely going back to that system or will it be more of a cross between 3e and 4e or do we not know yet?

It is still unclear. It looks like vancian will be in the mix, but hard to say what the complete picture is. I am pulling for a full return to the old magic system, but I suspect we will end up with more of a compromise.

 

[Hassassin]

so than are they completely going back to that system or will it be more of a cross between 3e and 4e or do we not know yet?

They will probably offer both Vancian and some non-Vancian options.

For example, the Warlock might be more 4e style and the Wizard more pre-4e, or there may be two versions of Wizard.

 

[Morrus]

They will probably offer both Vancian and some non-Vancian options.

For example, the Warlock might be more 4e style and the Wizard more pre-4e, or there may be two versions of Wizard.

My guess is that wizard and cleric will be vancian as core, with optional other systems. And other spellcasting classes won't be vancian as core.