What equipment value should PCs get when starting above 1st level?

What starting funds are appropriate for PCs over 1st level?

  • Same as regular 1st level PCs (about 100gp)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • As encounters of their EL (DMG pg 170)

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • As NPCs of their level (DMG pg 58)

    Votes: 7 15.2%
  • Full amount recommended by DMG (pg 43)

    Votes: 34 73.9%
  • Other (please detail)

    Votes: 2 4.3%

S'mon

Legend
The last GM for my group only allowed 1st-level starting funds for PCs of all levels - very tough, about 100gp. The group are now very happy because I allow them gp as per rewards for monsters with CR of their level (DMG pg 170), so 4th level PCS get 1200 gp of gear. NPC awards (DMG pg 58) give higher amounts (3300 gp for 4th level). I've found that the standard awards (DMG pg 43) give grotesque amounts at higher levels - 5,400 gp at 4th level not so bad, but IMO at 11th+ with free purchase the amounts are vastly more than is needed to handle monsters of appropriate CR.
What approach do you or your GM take?
 

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I give them the full amount based on their level. They would die very, very fast if I did not. I do not pull punches with my monsters or villians, and I also like running a balanced game. When you do not have the full amount of GP given to each character, certain classes will become much more powerful than others.

Classes with inherent magical powers, like Wizards, Clerics and Monks, will fare much better with less GP to spend on magic items, while those that rely on magic items, such as Fighters and Rogues, will do much worse. It's caused no problems so far.

PS

I should mention that I cut back the amount of magic items and GP found for a bit after a PC dies, since the party usually takes the dead PCs items after they are deceased. If the party needs more gold, they simply sell the new excess items.
 

MasterOfHeaven said:
I give them the full amount based on their level. They would die very, very fast if I did not. I do not pull punches with my monsters or villians, and I also like running a balanced game. When you do not have the full amount of GP given to each character, certain classes will become much more powerful than others.

Classes with inherent magical powers, like Wizards, Clerics and Monks, will fare much better with less GP to spend on magic items, while those that rely on magic items, such as Fighters and Rogues, will do much worse. It's caused no problems so far.

PS

I should mention that I cut back the amount of magic items and GP found for a bit after a PC dies, since the party usually takes the dead PCs items after they are deceased. If the party needs more gold, they simply sell the new excess items.

I agree that certain classes are more equipment-reliant, eg I got p'd off with our previous GM when I was playing a Fighter and we never got more than 25gp from a scenario - I still had a regular chain shirt & no magic at 3rd level, when I got killed by a ghoul. So for my next PC I made a cleric with emphasis on buffing spells, much more effective in that milieu.

My campaign world is a low-magic one (with a lower level distribution than standard, also - no NPCs higher than 8th level in local area), and although I'm a tough GM I'll use high-CR monsters sparingly - I don't mind if PCs advance slightly slower as a result, advancement in 3e is plenty fast enough.

I don't like having to base gp awards on the party's current circumstances - if the party are weak I'll run easier adventures, with correspondingly lower gp awards. I tend to give elite NPCs full equipment by level as per DMG, average NPCs get less.
 

S'mon said:


I agree that certain classes are more equipment-reliant, eg I got p'd off with our previous GM when I was playing a Fighter and we never got more than 25gp from a scenario - I still had a regular chain shirt & no magic at 3rd level, when I got killed by a ghoul. So for my next PC I made a cleric with emphasis on buffing spells, much more effective in that milieu.

My campaign world is a low-magic one (with a lower level distribution than standard, also - no NPCs higher than 8th level in local area), and although I'm a tough GM I'll use high-CR monsters sparingly - I don't mind if PCs advance slightly slower as a result, advancement in 3e is plenty fast enough.

I don't like having to base gp awards on the party's current circumstances - if the party are weak I'll run easier adventures, with correspondingly lower gp awards. I tend to give elite NPCs full equipment by level as per DMG, average NPCs get less.

I can see why you would want to run it that way. However it's my experience that players will get frustrated that they are not as powerful as their companions because they chose the "wrong" class to use in a low magic setting. I prefer to make it so that there is no "wrong" class to choose in my worlds.
 

The problem is that there's a great deal of latitude in what a given amount of gp can buy you, in terms of effectiveness. This isn't so much of a problem if characters advance from low to high levels, since you can control (to some extent) what gear they find along the way. However, if they start at high levels and you don't place limits on what they can buy, they can become a lot more effective than would otherwise be the case.

For example, here are two sets of equipment, both worth 200,000 gp (excluding the mundane bits):

+5 keen holy longsword: 128,000
+5 fire resistance full plate: 64,000
+1 ring of protection: 2,000
gauntlets of ogre power (+2 strength): 4,000
+1 amulet of natural armour: 2,000


+3 shock flaming longsword: 50,000
+3 animated large shield: 25,000
+1 heavy fortification full plate: 36,000
winged boots: 12,000
heward's handy haversack: 2,000
+2 ring of protection: 8,000
+2 periapt of wisdom: 8,000
+6 belt of giant strength: 36,000
luckstone: 10,000
ring of jumping: 2,000
ring of counterspells: 4,000
+1 mighty composite longbow (+4 Str): 2,500
+2 cloak of resistance: 4,000

The bonuses with the latter loadout may seem low, but that's easily solved with magic vestment and/or greater magic weapon spells. The latter loadout is also going to be a lot more useful in a lot more situations than the former.

If you're finding this to be a problem, limiting what items the characters can start with is probably a better way to solve it. For example, you might say that only items worth more than X gp can be bought, excepting potions and scrolls (to limit characters scrounging as many piddly +1 items and utility items as possible). Or you might say no more than Y magic items per character. Etcetera.
 
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MasterOfHeaven said:


I can see why you would want to run it that way. However it's my experience that players will get frustrated that they are not as powerful as their companions because they chose the "wrong" class to use in a low magic setting. I prefer to make it so that there is no "wrong" class to choose in my worlds.

I agree with that. IMO clerics are more powerful than other classes at almost any magic level, while Sorcs & Wizzes are weaker at low levels and stronger at higher (once they get 3rd level spells). For Fighters, I think the important thing is that they get the chance to acquire decent mundane gear - full plate armour, heavy warhorses, mighty masterwork longbows - at a reasonably low level. I've seen claims that Fighters are _more_ powerful than other classes, and I can see that could be the case with generous MI buy at higher levels.

My current group is:

Sorc 6 - levelled up from 5 last session, a major increase in power.
Fighter 1/Monk 4
Rogue 1/Sorc 1/Monk 2

and 2 secondary PCs, a Cleric 3 and Fighter 3.

They all seem useful in different areas - MI are 2 +1 swords, a +2 dagger and a couple of scrolls, a few potions.
 

IMC, starting charcters get a multiplier to standard 1st level cash, based on level:

2nd - x3
3rd - x4
4th - x5
5th - x7
6th - x10
7th - x15
8th to 9th - x20
10th to 11th - x25
12th to 13th - x30
14th to 15th - x40

It might be worth noting, however, that the 7-man party, average party level 6, currently only has assets equivalent to a single 6th or 7th level default character.
 

SableWyvern said:
IMC, starting charcters get a multiplier to standard 1st level cash, based on level:

2nd - x3
3rd - x4
4th - x5
5th - x7
6th - x10
7th - x15
8th to 9th - x20
10th to 11th - x25
12th to 13th - x30
14th to 15th - x40

It might be worth noting, however, that the 7-man party, average party level 6, currently only has assets equivalent to a single 6th or 7th level default character.

Interesting idea, thanks. I see from the poll that most people assign gp as per DMG standard - don't you find that this makes a 'new' 18th level PC vastly more powerful than one who's worked up from 1st level? Or do you all also allow PCs to freely buy whatever MI they want with the gold they have?
 

S'mon said:


I agree with that. IMO clerics are more powerful than other classes at almost any magic level, while Sorcs & Wizzes are weaker at low levels and stronger at higher (once they get 3rd level spells). For Fighters, I think the important thing is that they get the chance to acquire decent mundane gear - full plate armour, heavy warhorses, mighty masterwork longbows - at a reasonably low level. I've seen claims that Fighters are _more_ powerful than other classes, and I can see that could be the case with generous MI buy at higher levels.

My current group is:

Sorc 6 - levelled up from 5 last session, a major increase in power.
Fighter 1/Monk 4
Rogue 1/Sorc 1/Monk 2

and 2 secondary PCs, a Cleric 3 and Fighter 3.

They all seem useful in different areas - MI are 2 +1 swords, a +2 dagger and a couple of scrolls, a few potions.

I notice that all of your PCs, with the exception of the third level Fighter, have picked classes that give them "inborn" magical abilities. It's good to see they've picked up fast on what type of campaign they're playing in, except for the Fighter, but I'm sure he'll wise up if his character dies and come in with another class better fitted for the campaign.

It's also nice to see that the magic user in the group has wisely chosen the path of the Sorcerer, instead of the path of the Wizard, Wizards being largely hamstrung in low magic campaigns thanks to lack of access to scrolls and resources with which to create magic items such as scrolls and wands.

Judging from what I see here, I think your group is smart enough to adapt to whatever type of campaign you want to run, so you should just go with what you think will work best.

As for giving new PCs coming in at 18th level (which rarely happens, by the way, since 18th level PCs have a wide array of powers and skills to keep them alive, and even if they do die they will likely be ressurected) the full allotment of magic items, it works fine. Characters developed from the ground up, are, in my experience at least, just as powerful as those developed from 18th level.

Just remember to limit the amount of new magical items they get for a while to compensate for the magic items they have from the now deceased PC no longer in the group, and it works great. Best of luck to whatever you decide to go with.
 

Full amount (usually) but I limit what they can buy. Mostly this means "only minor (or medium) items, except for the following, which cannot be bought: ..."
 

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