What ever happened to just "playing" the game and telling a great story?

[boerngrim]

Hi
There was a time when I used to try to map out an intricate plotline for my games. On most occasions my players just did not follow my carefully conceived plots. They either didn't catch on to the hooks, or weren't interested in them. I had to let it go. I came to understand that the DM's role isn't to write a story and then let the players act it out, but rather to help guide the players through telling their own story, or a mutual story that kind of just developes as you play the game. During my years gaming either as a DM or player the most memorable moments have been spontaneously generated at the game table with everyone's participation and unexpected reactions. Sometimes focusing on the rules too much can get in the way of this, if you let it.
thanks.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I have no difficulty in that regards, though I do put in complex plots I think that Shilsen has pretty much nailed my thoughts on the matter.

When I am running a game I create the plot - the background and the framework of events that would happen without intervention (in the form of the PCs). The players tell the story, what they come up with may or may not have anything to do with what I planned. Or anything at all, at least once the PCs have decided that the 'bad guy' was right, and left him to what he was doing. He was just doing things in the same places that they were. Both sides growing more paranoid about the other....

I live for the moment when they start realizing just what is really going on. When they have enough pieces of the puzzle to get a look at the big picture.

The Auld Grump

 

[Varianor Abroad]

This is really the rosy vision of nostalgia talking. In over 26 years of playing D&D, groups that put story first have been rare. Really rare.

 

[Dan Bell]

What ever happened to "just playing the game and enjoying the story?"

And this is why I game in Harn.

 

[ruleslawyer]

This is really the rosy vision of nostalgia talking. In over 26 years of playing D&D, groups that put story first have been rare. Really rare.

The inverse is also true. The same DMs I know who told great stories back in 1e are doing the same in 3.5, AE, or IH. Likewise, the same people I've met who were rules lawyers or control-freak DMs were the same then as they are now.

 

[FATDRAGONGAMES]

The inverse is also true. The same DMs I know who told great stories back in 1e are doing the same in 3.5, AE, or IH. Likewise, the same people I've met who were rules lawyers or control-freak DMs were the same then as they are now.

Yep, I've got a friend who is our resident rules lawyer-he's been that way since 1E days. Ultimately, how the game is run is not determined by the system but the DM.

 

[danzig138]

Nitpick: No. If I wanted someone else to tell me a story, I'd read a book, or watch a movie.

Damn, meet Skippy.

 

[lin_fusan]

If I wanted someone else to tell me a story, I'd read a book, or watch a movie. I don't play RPGs to be passively entertained. It is my character, and therefore my story, not the DM's.

In all my years of running games, I sometimes forget this fact. The players don't give a darn about your NPCs, your plots, even your locations. All they care about getting XP and taking loot.

I stopped taking extensive notes in my campaigns years ago 'cause it wasn't worth the cost-benefit ratio. If the players don't derive any pleasure what you say out of your mouth in your game, then don't say it.

 

[Minicol]

I never had this problem

Remember back when you first played D&D?

Having players argue with me about why I don't allow such-and-such splatbook get very tiresome. So-called "dead levels," unbalanced characters, babble-babble-babble-blah-blah-blah... just shut up and play the game.
I'm trying to tell a great story dammit, and you're angry about not getting a cookie at your next level.

What ever happened to "just playing the game and enjoying the story?"

3e seems to encourage both players and DMs to over-analyze the rules. Whatever happened to thinking up a character concept and then translating that into the rules, instead of thinking up rules and translating them into a character concept? Whatever happend to thinking up a story and translating that story into the rules, and vice versa?

It seems like more ruleslawyers have come out of the woodwork since 3e appeared. Armed with their PHBs, DMGs, and MMs (you shouldn't even consult the DMG or MM during the session!

... SNIP

What have you done about it?

What will it take to going back and sitting down and playing the game and telling a great story?

Well, judging from what I read, all the rules lawyers will be moving over to 4e.

After all, they have a new prey to Stalk, hunt, dissect and analyze.


No seriously, this may be wishful thinking.

I met the same problems as you. My solution, is that I am slowly moving away from groups with these problem players, and setting up other groups with the non-problem ones.

Test : start a new campaign, tell the players that they start with 24 points. Then they can earn one point by every page of usable background that they write, up to a maximum of 29.
then tell them they can have bonus points if they do the following :

1 point for endeavouring to bring the sodas on every game
1 point for having your own painted mini, rather than annoying the other players to get one...

After a while, either the message get through, or the problem players go away.

At least, it worked for me.

 

[Psion]

3e seems to encourage both players and DMs to over-analyze the rules. Whatever happened to thinking up a character concept and then translating that into the rules, instead of thinking up rules and translating them into a character concept?

Why is that necessary to a story? AFAIAC, it's not. I love plucking creatures, classes, items, and spells out of the rules, extrapolating a little bit, and making a story around it. Things I have made great games out of include:

• The Kaiju template in dragon.
• Pride Daemons in creature collection 3.
• Conundrum Creature from Creature Collection 2
• Tempus Twins from Creature Collection 2
• Ratmen from creature collection revised
• The Divert Teleport power in XPH
• The Jewel Mage prestige class in Spells & Magic
• The Mirror Mage prc in Book of Eldritch Might

I think the problem isn't the rules so much as the culture. For some reason, it seems to me that a major part of the D&D audience sees a dichotomy between rules and story. The rules tell how the world works. The rules tell the story. All the DM needs to do is look to see how various rules elements can play together to make an interesting situation. And the great thing is, once you've done that, just set the whole thing loose an the rules dictate how the story evolves in response to the players' efforts.

I think part of this culture reared it's ugly head when WotC started producing PrCs and creatures with a lot of background material. I thought that was great. It gave you story elements with a strong link to how it played out in the game, which naturally supports the best sort of RPG experience AFAIAC. But those who don't see the connection between mechanics blasted the move.