What ever happened to just "playing" the game and telling a great story?

[an_idol_mind]

In all my years of running games, I sometimes forget this fact. The players don't give a darn about your NPCs, your plots, even your locations. All they care about getting XP and taking loot.

I can't say I totally agree with this. In my experience, while players don't enjoy getting long histories on a location, deity, or NPC, they do derive some pleasure from a certain sense of familiarity. They get used to certain aspects of a setting and enjoy returning to the main inn, city, or what have you. If the NPCs are interesting and used well, the players can get interested in what goes on in those characters' lives as well. The trick is not being overbearing with setting information and focusing on what grabs the players' attention.

 

[Agamon]

In all my years of running games, I sometimes forget this fact. The players don't give a darn about your NPCs, your plots, even your locations. All they care about getting XP and taking loot.

I stopped taking extensive notes in my campaigns years ago 'cause it wasn't worth the cost-benefit ratio. If the players don't derive any pleasure what you say out of your mouth in your game, then don't say it.

Huh. What about those games that have neither XP nor loot? I'm getting set to run my Paragons M&M game, what in the name of Gary Gygax will my players give a darn about????

 

[Aus_Snow]

3e seems to encourage both players and DMs to over-analyze the rules.

It only seems that way to some people. Not to me (and many others,) however.

It seems like more ruleslawyers have come out of the woodwork since 3e appeared.

I find this highly unlikely. So unlikely, I don't believe it.

What have you done about it?

Played and run a whole lot of D&D 3e and d20 stuff. Still am, and loving it.

What will it take to going back and sitting down and playing the game and telling a great story?

It's all down to attitude, IMO.

 

[Orius]

The inverse is also true. The same DMs I know who told great stories back in 1e are doing the same in 3.5, AE, or IH. Likewise, the same people I've met who were rules lawyers or control-freak DMs were the same then as they are now.

Ultimately, how the game is run is not determined by the system but the DM.

I agree completely. I've always liked the 3e rules, and I never felt that the rules were letting the players overrule me when I was running my games. I ran a solid game that my players enjoyed. It's not the rules, it's the DM.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

"Dammit guys, stop playing 3e your way and do what I want!"

Ugh.

If your players don't match your GMing style, get new players and let them get a new GM.

 

[baradtgnome]

I can't say I totally agree with this. In my experience, while players don't enjoy getting long histories on a location, deity, or NPC, they do derive some pleasure from a certain sense of familiarity. They get used to certain aspects of a setting and enjoy returning to the main inn, city, or what have you. If the NPCs are interesting and used well, the players can get interested in what goes on in those characters' lives as well. The trick is not being overbearing with setting information and focusing on what grabs the players' attention.

Nicely said. When I just can't contain myself and must give players a long history, I write it down and leave it for them to enjoy or not. My games are often complex and refer back to such history, so it is there in writing for them if they choose to go back and look it up. It is never required that they do so to be successful however. (although it might make things easier)

I have found players do like familiarity. Old friend NPCs, recurring villains, or even returning to the Welcome Wench . And though the world may turn around them with major events and important powerful people, the story is about them in that world. Not the NPCs. Set up the plot, and they either save the day or not. How they do it is the story.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I can't say I totally agree with this. In my experience, while players don't enjoy getting long histories on a location, deity, or NPC, they do derive some pleasure from a certain sense of familiarity.

Maybe you have different players.

 

[Hussar]

Huh. What about those games that have neither XP nor loot? I'm getting set to run my Paragons M&M game, what in the name of Gary Gygax will my players give a darn about????

I don't know about your experience, but, in mine, when I've played in games that don't have xp or loot, the campaigns fizzle after about 10-15 sessions. At least, far shorter than D&D campaigns. Obviously YMMV.

 

[Numion]

I don't know about your experience, but, in mine, when I've played in games that don't have xp or loot, the campaigns fizzle after about 10-15 sessions. At least, far shorter than D&D campaigns. Obviously YMMV.

XP and loot is the glue that binds adventurers together, huh?

Gygax did an unbelievably good design solution in including xp/loot/levels in an RPG. The first RPG, no less.

EDIT: on the game vs. story subject, read my sig.

 

[Hussar]

I guess it comes down to, we're playing a game and how else do you keep score? Xp and Loot work pretty darn well for that.