What Games do you think are Neotrad?

[GobHag]

Right, but this then becomes a reductio on RPGing as such. Like, if the art has already been created, what is the play for? A type of weirdly-mediated appreciation of the creation?

The art has not been created however, the sites and destination is clear but the journey hasn't been taken.

 

[clearstream]

In Narr you play to find out how it ends. In genre, you play to find out how we get to the end.

Many campaigns have no end in sight or even intended, which has a funny result

In Narr you play to find out how...

In genre, you play to find out how we get to...

Which of course doesn't divide them distinctly...

 

[thefutilist]

Which of course doesn't divide them distinctly...

I’ve made multiple posts explaining the demarcation. I’ve done this on both on the level of intent, reward and how they’re facilitated by mechanics. If you’re still genuinely confused then I suspect we’re so far apart in out basic conceptualisations that nothing I say will satisfy you.

 

[clearstream]

I’ve made multiple posts explaining the demarcation. I’ve done this on both on the level of intent, reward and how they’re facilitated by mechanics. If you’re still genuinely confused then I suspect we’re so far apart in out basic conceptualisations that nothing I say will satisfy you.

I was merely teasing about the paucity of that particular expression. That said, I observe folk reading broader meanings into what I write than I intend (and that my actual words say), so I appreciate that it might have seemed I was making a sweeping criticism.

 

[Emerikol]

Do you make the world revolve around the player or do you want the player to be part of the world?

That I think is the main differentiation between Neotrad and Trad.

This has actually been a debate at times with some of my players. I'm definitely in the Trad camp if this is the definition. I agree the article is nigh inscrutable.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Do you make the world revolve around the player or do you want the player to be part of the world?

That I think is the main differentiation between Neotrad and Trad.

I'd disagree. I think the differentiation is do you make the player character part of the world or do you make them separate from the world as if they could have just been Isikai'd in from another world.

 

[GobHag]

I'd disagree. I think the differentiation is do you make the player character part of the world or do you make them separate from the world as if they could have just been Isikai'd in from another world.

Honestly that just sounds like a more specific version of what I said.

But also you can 100% make a character that fits the setting and world and have it be Neotrad by way of making the campaign/play experience revolving around the PC's issues, foibles, and backstories--just because you made a grizzled Human Fighter in 3e Forgotten Realms doesn't mean it isn't neotrad if you're dueling against the commander that betrayed your company as the climax of a campaign.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Honestly that just sounds like a more specific version of what I said.

It's a reverse of the focus; the difference is there but which one is being presented as important or desirable is different.

But also you can 100% make a character that fits the setting and world and have it be Neotrad by way of making the campaign/play experience revolving around the PC's issues, foibles, and backstories--just because you made a grizzled Human Fighter in 3e Forgotten Realms doesn't mean it isn't neotrad if you're dueling against the commander that betrayed your company as the climax of a campaign.

And you can 100% make a Trad character who drifted in and is unlinked to the setting in a NeoTrad campaign. For that matter if you want to you can make a Trad character in a story game. These aren't hard lines.

I'm only being slightly flippant when I say all of Trad, Neo-Trad, and Story games would be immediately identifiable to anyone from the 90s

• Trad players are basically playing 2e with a slightly different ruleset
• Neo-Trad players are basically playing Vampire with a normally brighter tone and slightly different ruleset
• Story game players are playing what Vampire promised but never delivered on with a turbo charged ruleset

 

[GobHag]

On that last part I agree. There's areason why I consider Nwod(RIP ) to be textbook Neotrad.

The difference is, I don't think I agree with the 2nd there. As in, the grizzled Human Fighter in my example is very much a Neotrad character since stuff is happening based around what the character's backstory and 'deal' is. He's not a trad character at all, he's a dyed in the wool neotrad, just in camo pattern.

It's a reverse of the focus; the difference is there but which one is being presented as important or desirable is different.

Well yes, that was what my post talked about. Is the important or desirable thing 'the world' or is it 'the character'

 

[Emerikol]

This is a rather fascinating discussion. It's probably something that I should be sure to clarify in my campaign introductions. I'm very trad. That doesn't mean characters can't influence events either. It just means the campaign is not designed to revolve around the PCs. Those of us who want a "living" world will have all kinds of events happening in the campaign that don't directly impact the characters. It's just like when a writer shows a setting change over time. It makes the verisimilitude stronger.