What happened to Negative Energy Ray (and the like) from T&B?

[Tiberius]

My guess is because spells that require an attack roll to do damage don't usually allow a further save to reduce said damage. Negative Energy Ray breaks that rule of thumb.

Disintegrate being the counter-example. I seem to recall the "attack roll = no save" design decision being new to 3.5, but I could well be mistaken. I'm feeling sufficiently lazy that I don't want to go hunt down my 3.0 PHB to check.

 

[Twowolves]

It probably is new to 3.5 ed, but that would explain why the spell from a 3.0 book wasn't updated to 3.5.

 

[Felix]

My guess is because spells that require an attack roll to do damage don't usually allow a further save to reduce said damage. Negative Energy Ray breaks that rule of thumb.

Were you responding to my post?

Because having a save for half damage makes the spell less powerful; because it's less powerful it should be a higher level spell? What?

 

[Huw]

I don't have a problem with them, except that the ray should prolly be 2nd level imho (as you said above).

Why? As other posters have pointed out, it's less average damage than a magic missile, and only to a single target.

I think these spells where dropped for flavour reasons, but I'd allow them.

 

[Twowolves]

Were you responding to my post?

No, I was responding to the original question in the original post. Had I been responding to your post, I would have quoted it, like I have in this post.

 

[Felix]

No, I was responding to the original question in the original post. Had I been responding to your post, I would have quoted it, like I have in this post.

The clarity is welcome.

 

[FoxWander]

I think NE Ray does less damage than comparable spells because it can also be used to heal undead. And it allows a saving throw because most negative energy effects allow a saving throw. Both limitations seem reasonable but combining them in one spell makes for a weaker spell when compared to other 1st level spells. So I've re-thought my original level increase.

I'd keep the slower increasing damage but drop the saving throw so it would match other 3.5 ray spells. Damage is damage whether its fire, cold, acid, or negative energy. The source of the damage only matters for creatures which are particularly resistant or vulnerable to that source. And since this particular source also heals undead thats why I think the slower damage increase is balanced.

With that in mind, NE Burst should definitely be only a second level. It does horrible damage compared to ANY other 3rd level spell (especially the most comparable 20' burst 3rd level spell!). In fact it does less damage than most 1st level spells, but it's much larger area of effect justifies making it 2nd level.

Finally, I'm thinking NE Wave is probably just right for the effect it has.

 

[boerngrim]

I would use them. The rule of thumb I go by with 3.0 vs 3.5 content is anything not specifically updated by a 3.5 book is still usable as is in the 3.0 source. I'm pretty sure I read that in the 3.5 update book, but its what I use.
thanks.