D&D 5E What happens if 5E fails to unite the base?

Nebulous

Legend
I don't think that is entirely true. After all, one could well argue that 4E was comprised of well written, imaginitaive, clear ruled and artistically high quality books, and yet it failed (by whatever metric leads to "we need a new edition"). I know I didn't buy any 4E books after the intial set so turned me off, and it didn't matter how high quality the production values were.

Well, what i think he meant, is if the quality, imaginative rules are FULLY dedicated to making players of all older editions happy, then there is no way it could fail (it still could though, but less likely). 4e didn't give a whiff about making 1e players happy, the game just wanted to divorce itself far enough from 3.x/Pathfinder and define what "should" be played. And it failed overall i think. At least, not in the revenue kind of way a major company anticipates.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
I am just curious what people think will happen if 5E fails to unite the customer base (which is its design goal). Let's say it does about as well or a little better/worse than 4E (and the split basically stays where it is); what direction do you think WOTC will or should go from there?
Hasbro's general policy with an under-performing line is to shelve it for a decade or so, on the theory that it'll generate nostalgic excitement when it's brought back, and a new generation will be introduced to it in a positive atmosphere (or some such marketing gobbledegook).

WotC's best bet might be to either flat-out take a 'two prong aproach,' with a 'Classic D&D' that slavishly sticks to the foibles and feel of older editions, in addition to the main D&D line that continues to evolve and improve, or just leave the grognards to Paizo and the like and continue without them. Basically, accept the split and live with it. The truth is, the split has always been there with each new edition, it just hasn't been possible for a 3rd party to really cash in on it the way Paizo has with Pathfinder until the OGL.
 

kitsune9

Adventurer
If the 5e fails, the Hasbro could:

1. Decide to close the brand down entirely and keep it in "storage". An opportunity will come later and they will dust it off and see if they can use it to generate interest in some kind of product line.

2. Sell it to someone else.

3. License it to someone else.

4. Kill the game, but use the IP for other kind of products (board games, video games, toys, movies, etc.).

I'm neutral as to whether 5e will do until we start seeing what the playtests generate and whether there is a resurgence of interest from outside groups (i.e. players who don't play 4e but now have renewed interest in playing 5e).
 

harpy

First Post
From everything I've read it seems that Hasbro is salivating over generating some degree the profit that Marvel Studio is making. They are shifting their IP into movies, hence things like the Battleship Movie along with other titles ahead.

So they want D&D to be making $50 million and on the way to $100 million per year to build up an audience base that will roll out whenever a movie is made.

What happens if 5e can't pull off this initial "seeding" strategy? There has been mentioned the threat of mothballing, much the way tons of games from the Avalon Hill catalog are locked away. At the same time, plenty of titles have come out of deep freeze, such as the Merchants of Venus recently. So as much as Hasbro is moving their IP around in an overly corporate sized gloves, there is still some fluidity.

D&D is a bit different from other products they sell. It has had a cartoon and two movies made for it, so it has already existed as a media product. While their $50/$100 million grand plan is making D&D seem as if it is in dire straits, it might also be overblown fear. It might be the assessment of Hasbro that mothballing it wouldn't be the best way to handle the IP. There is also just the reality that by 2016 the Hasbro leadership will have changed and the new leadership won't see mothballing as the best approach.

One angle might be that with Fantasy Flight on the ascent in the hobby market, and who already have a track record of taking licensed IP and developing it, such as 40k, WoW, and even Star Wars, that they may be able to pick up the D&D license and develop it. That would get D&D off of Hasbro's books, with just the license fees and whatever percentage of profit just flowing in.

Another angle in all of this is that they finally have the digital rights back to D&D, which means that what they do with new digital products could have a real impact on the fate of the tablet top game. What happens in the coming years will likely shape the tabletop's existence in various ways. 5e itself is going to have to become even more invested in a digital environment, so I'd assume that the swirl of activity around digital products will be making a big effect.

In terms of digital, it's 2012 now and we're about to get the iPad 3 in the next few months. It'll likely be summer 2013 when 5e comes out and that will mean iPad 4 will be out by then. We're two iterations of iPad away from 5e, along with all the further developments on android. The iPhone came out in 2007 at $600. In 2010 an improved version could be bought for $50 with a plan. iPad 1 came out in 2010, and we're looking at 2013, the same time frame for the iPhone, in terms of the cost and improvements of the iPad to have emerged. I doubt that iPads in 2013 will be $50, but they ought to be sub $200, and perhaps less with some kind of plans.

By 2016, when we've had a matured life cycle for 5e tablet computers should easily be $100 or less in price. At that point you have a tabletop base of players who are mostly going to have a bunch of tablets laying about the table. Sure there will be "from my dead cold hands" print people holding out, but they'll be the graying minority. Younger generations will look at tablets as the obvious choice for any kind of reading material.

So I think that's a big factor. It won't be business as usual anymore in terms of tabletop RPGing functioning under a traditional print business model. We're entering a brave new world, and plenty of people might not like it, but it's still happening and only accelerating. The biggest growth in tabletop is going to be companies figuring out how to mesh digital interaction with traditional tabletop play. If everyone at the table is using tablets and they are all connected to wifi, then all sorts of in-game digital tools can get utilized. Will WotC be a leader in this? So far they keep flailing about, but it might just be the need to get new leadership and a new business plan in place to make them the market leader.
 

TheAuldGrump

First Post
I doubt it will fail. And here's why: I don't think the base is as "divided" as some people think.

The theory is that the fan base is split into three groups: a large group of 4E players, a large group of 3.X/Pathfinder players, and a somewhat smaller group of earlier-edition players. But we are all tabletop RPG players, and there is a lot of overlap in our materials. A lot of people who play one edition also buy and adapt material from other editions to use in their game.

So as long as WotC focuses on QUALITY OF PRODUCT, they cannot fail. As long as the books are well-written, with imaginative adventures, clear rules, and quality artwork...we will buy them. We might buy them them because we are curious, we might buy them because we are switching to the new 5E, we might buy them to adapt them to our older system of choice...but if the quality is there, we will buy it.
I think that you are being overly optimistic - if WotC fails to recapture the folks that have already abandoned the D&D brand then the quality of the game will not matter.

They are making a start by admitting that the roll out of 4e was badly handled, but the problem is that roll out has already happened, and folks did abandon the brand.

The apologia may be too little, far too late. I am happy with Pathfinder, and 5e will have to be pretty danged spiffy for me to do more than glance at it.

Heck, it is possible that the best bet for WotC, as far as getting me to purchase, would be to make the supplements as mineable as possible. If I can steal bits and pieces for Pathfinder, polish off the serial numbers, and use them, then they have still made a sale. (Heroes of Battle comes to mind - the core system really does not care what game I am playing at all.)

The Auld Grump
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
If the Wizards of the Coast fail to unite the base, darkness will fall across the land, and it will be up to you to travel the four corners of the known world to collect the long-lost Player Bases of the Four Editions and to bring them together into the One Player Base of Power and restore light and goodness to the land.

"Korben my man! I have no fire! I-I-I-I-I-I have no matches! Do you have any matches?"
 

mmadsen

First Post
From everything I've read it seems that Hasbro is salivating over generating some degree the profit that Marvel Studio is making. They are shifting their IP into movies, hence things like the Battleship Movie along with other titles ahead.

So they want D&D to be making $50 million and on the way to $100 million per year to build up an audience base that will roll out whenever a movie is made.
[...]
D&D is a bit different from other products they sell. It has had a cartoon and two movies made for it, so it has already existed as a media product.
My understanding of Marvel's recent movie success is that it came about as a reaction to the terrible movies that resulted from hands-off licensing deals. Once Marvel decided to manage its own properties more closely, it was able to produce movies that were true to the original properties, and those were quite successful, appealing to new fans with no allegiance to the original comics.
 

Piscivorous

First Post
I'm skeptical. I've seen consolidation/re-tool projects before. They are very hard, if not impossible, to pull off.

That being said, I think they have a fighting chance, simply because they have dedicated people working on it.

My take is to go ahead and release D&DN. But set up departments within WotC to start re-releasing older versions, including new adventures. They could target every generation of D&D player at once. If Hasbro is looking for revenue this is ideal. Especially if the goal is to lead their players into the theaters in the future.

Touching on the subject of table-top vs online. Online is fine, but you lose a lot of the social/face-to-face interaction. It's a lot like poker. [Well it was]. I could play poker or D&D online every day, but the experience is much different than playing live in-person.
 


Shemeska

Adventurer
I'm not so sure. Mearls talks like this edition will be around for a while. Or at least that's the plan right now.

So did Rouse when talking about 4e, and it turned out to have the shortest life of any edition yet.

If they don't regain a large slice of the market that they presumably lost with 4e, I don't think they'll be around for a 6e. Of course either I'll have a 5e I like plus Pathfinder, or Pathfinder even if WotC tanks, so there's really no downside here for me. :)
 

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