What happens if we don't like it?

[Aus_Snow]

I see the potential of a massively splintered market... particularly if someone took up the challenge of supporting or updating 3.5.

I am certainly wondering if anyone how many will do just that.

I do know, though, that it would never be a true competitor [vs. 4e] in terms of numbers, let alone ongoing sales. Even so, I can see it having a very solid, paying fanbase. Well maybe.

So much remains to be seen. Interesting times, indeed.

 

[Odhanan]

What happens if I don't like it?

I stick with 3.5. I've enough stuff to last for a decade, at the very least.

If it pleases me, I'll cherry pick stuff from my 3.5 books to adapt in 4.0. Just like I do with 3.5 and all my other RPG books.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

FWIW, Here's a snapshot of my own ongoing struggle with nomenclature.

Dude, a very cool chart. Just wanted to say that.

 

[jdrakeh]

What then?

Uhm. . . you don't buy it? Or were you hoping for something more dramatic with pronouncements of dire future events and sworn oaths to boycott WotC?

 

[Banshee16]

What happens if we don't like it?


We get to collectively lump it.

Why's that? Just don't buy it, and don't play it. The money I saved by not buying as many books, once the companies I liked, like Green Ronin etc. cut their publishing schedules, gave me the money to buy an SLR and take up digital photography.

There are tonnes of 3E books out there. Likely I could make it to 5E with my stockpile, and a combo of the best of 3.0 and 3.5 works perfectly well.

The only reason 3E "sucks" is because their marketing will progressively tell us it does, in order to get us to buy 4E.

What happens to D20 Modern?

Banshee

 

[Khairn]

If you don't like what you are reading about 4E, stay with 3.5 or try another system. There are a number of outstanding and cheaper systems available today. WotC and D&D isn't the only game in town. Take a look around.

 

[see]

I mean, what if 4e is not considered a critical success and does not fully supplant 3.5 in popularity? What if 4e is the Champions: The New Millenium of D&D?

What then?

Then people play Delvings and Denizens 3.5.1.

Delvings and Denizens 3.5.1, you see, is a cut-and-paste of the Revised SRD, the OGL-licensed character creation and level advancement rules from Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved, the OGL-licensed XP system from Unearthed Arcana, the spell names from Necromancer Games' Original Spell Name Compendium, and the fifteen deities from Deities of The Faithful (an all-OGL web enhancement for The Bonds of Magic by Sean K Reynolds). It was published by {$_PUBLISHER_NAME} in September 2008 as two books (the Player's Guidebook for $29.95 and the Denizen Master's Manual for $39.95), with the art largely generic fantasy scenes purchased as second-use recycling for a flat fee.

{$_PUBLISHER_NAME} saw its market share increase by over four-fold, to 12% of the RPG market by the middle of 2009, by filling the 3.5 core rules demand. And it made fat margins, since it had to pay nothing to writers or artists on the product that now represented 75% of its sales. It followed things up by launching its own $50/year online service, with an e-zine, an online virtual gametable on the company's servers based on the open source MapTool, a character generator based on the open source PCGen, and a character visualization tool licensed from an MMORPG's existing codebase.

 

[RFisher]

But if you don't like it, go back to 3.x and enjoy what you like!

3.x or whatever other previous edition you prefer

(^_^)

Have you considered splitting AD&D 2nd edition into 2.0 and 2.5?

Glad you liked it.

Yes, but... There are two ways to do that.

If I call 2.1 (I would not say 2.5, a quirk of mine) the revised core books, then there really aren't enough changes to bother to differentiate. (Just like with the later covers of the 1e books.)

If I call 2.1 core + the Complete & Players Options lines, then that looks more like a "dot edition" to me, but it is even less on my radar than OD&D+supplements, 1e+UA+*SG, or BECMI+Gazs. So, I'd have to break those out as well.

So far, I haven't found as much need to decide on nomenclature for those as for the core editions themselves. (& 3.5, which was more than just minor fixes & a new cover, though it was less that what a new edition would normally be.) & that has been the real driver for that page. What is the least someone needs to know to understand what edition I'm talking about.

Dude, a very cool chart. Just wanted to say that.

Thanks.

 

[StupidSmurf]

Haven't been around in a while....took an announcement of this magnitude (??) to rouse me out of my Ent-like torpor and actually post something.

As far as 4E goes....good luck, WotC. You're gonna need it.

What happens if we don't like it? Well, in our little corner of the world, for what it's worth, the point is moot.

I already know that everyone in my group's not going to pick it up. They've sunk too many resources already into 3.5, and are happy with it. I've personally sunk WAYYY too many resources into 3.5. I definitely am not picking this new one up. It's far too soon. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, WotC can go straight to that Outer Plane where Lawful Evils go when they die.

We're sticking with 3.5. We like it.

First Dragon and Dungeon go the way of the dinosaur, now this. Would like to say I'm surprised, but sadly I'm not.

Some will buy 4E and lo, they will love it. And really, that's great for them. Some will buy it and say "We wuz robbed!".

Our group simply has decided not to risk it....the benefits do NOT outweigh the risks and/or inconvenience of yet another D&D system.

And if you ask me, we're now seeing the dilution of D&D as an end-all be all. It's the breakdown of Orthodoxy. No longer will there be The One True D&D Game to Rule Them All. There's too many different permutations of D&D, each with enough adherents to keep them going. The more versions they release, the more some people will dig in their heels and stick with their old systems.

I saw people do it when AD&D 2nd Ed came out....and a percentage stuck with AD&D.
I saw people do it when D&D 3.0 came out, and a percentage stuck with 2nd Ed.
D&D 3.5, well, it corrected a lot of stuff from 3.0 that just shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Now comes 4E? Fine. Law of diminishing returns, baby.

At the risk of turning this into an Old School Gamer Rant (tm), there was a time when D&D was the Almighty, and Dragon was its prophet. Now the prophet's gone, and there's a whole bunch of Almightys running around....I think I kinda liked it better the old way, but hey, we can work with this and still have an enjoyable gaming experience.


We choose 3.5. Fourth ED can take a flying leap.

 

[Stormtower]

Most of my local group was at GenCon for the announcement, as I was.

Brief synopsis of thoughts:

We felt talked down to with quotes like "Start thinking about wrapping up your 3.5 campaigns" and "we will help players to better understand their role in the party" (paraphrasing here) from Bill Slavicsek. WotC doesn't get to define our campaign timelines or playstyle.

We felt slapped in the face by the earliness of the announcement. Much of the 3.5 splatbook material has yet to be integrated or even sampled by our group. Several of us are heavily invested in the 3.5 minis and books.

We felt the lack of backwards compatibility was intentional on the part of WotC - who are, to my mind, some of the most talented designers in the business - to push us into 4e.

Finally, as Living Greyhawk players and DMs, we were stung by WotC's choice to drop LG from the supported campaigns and to essentially bury the Greyhawk IP.

I have enough 3.5 material in my homebrew to play for the next quarter century or more, and the OGL allows me to design my own stuff after we run out. We'll be voting with our wallets and not supporting 4e or the Insider.

3.5/OGL works for us, we feel that we have only scratched the surface of what is possible within the system for both storytelling and tactical/combat challenges, and there is no compelling reason to switch with Living Greyhawk being discontinued.

It's sad but also liberating. I know we will have a smaller pool of players from which to choose as the iterations of D&D increasingly splinter the face-to-face tabletop D&D community, but we are loyal to 3.5 and the OGL and, despite plenty of disposable income, disinclined to provide WotC with positive feedback regarding their decision to switch editions.

I will miss being active in the RPGA, but I have no doubt that there will be many others who follow a similar path. To those who are excited about 4e, I hope it is all that you want it to be. Game on!