What I hate about A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers Ahead)

[Fast Learner]

One of the thngs touched on in this thread but not too directly addressed:

SoT, you said that some of the gruesome deaths in ASOFAI made you physically ill. I say "Good." They made me ill, too.

Death should make you sick. Death is disgusting, awful, sickmaking. Death is terrible.

It's all the "clean" deaths in our society's art that disturb me.

 

[cfmcdonald]

\

Ah, yes, but it doesn't work like that. Just imagine that Tom Cruise is considered the sexiest bloke alive and Reese Witherspoon the sexiest girl. Everybody in the world thinks they are the ideal type, and we all agree. Gosh, are they just divine!? Who could want anything more?

Just one slight, big problem. There is only one Tom Cruise and one Reese in the entire world. Everyone else, instantly frustrated, despondent
I and unhappy…

Uh, isn't that pretty much the way the real world works? How many people marry their perfectly ideal wife/husband? How many people have their perfectly ideal job, perfectly ideal house, live in their perfectly ideal city... etc. Learning to deal with not getting exactly what you want is one of the first lessons in life - those who fail to do so will indeed end up as you suggest.

Chris

 

[Eosin the Red]

SoT, you said that some of the gruesome deaths in ASOFAI made you physically ill. I say "Good." They made me ill, too.

Death should make you sick. Death is disgusting, awful, sickmaking. Death is terrible.

It's all the "clean" deaths in our society's art that disturb me.

Two issues really.

I agree that it was a good thing(TM), that is rarely seen in fantasy lit. Killing is frequently glossed over in Fantasy Lit. Primarily, because death makes us uncomfortable. Martin's characters not only kill, they live with the emotions of killing. They have images burned into their brain that they cannot forget. They kill people they care for. Placed in Jons shoes, I would poop on myself and start to cry. He was a basically good person put into a loose-loose situation.

Death is very different. Death can be horrible. Death can also be calm and serene. The West has a preoccupation with avoiding end of life issues, because we fear it so much. The two are seperate issues. I have watched the best and the worst kinds of death. If you try to run and hide, life will eventually make you pay.


On the Red Wedding:
After I read the Red Wedding, I put the book on the table, walked outside and looked into the night for a long time. Few books have ever done that to me.

 

[Teflon Billy]

*cracks whip*

ALLRIGHT EVOLUTIONISTS....BACK ON THE GODDAM TOPIC!!!

Anyway, I cannot believe that someone finds Gregor Clegane a better example of humanity than Stannis Baratheon.

Sandor Clegane however is, I think, on about the same level of goodness/evilness as Stannis...both are borderline personalites with odd moments of greatness.

 

[Eosin the Red]

As to who is better than who...

I would never imagine that I could feel anything but contempt for Sandor or Jaim. Yet, find myself doing just that.

Amazing that we all routed for the cheating, killing, poison using Red Viper of Dorne. That fight and the bathroom scene that follows are my favorite scenes.

 

[Nellisir]

Odds on GRR Martin surviving to the end of the series?

I have to admit, I love this series. I'm fascinated by it. I check the bookstore every week, just in case. How many writers set their stories in a world where magic is -returning-?!? As the series continues, we are faced not with the inevitable ascension of the White Knight over the Black, but a proliferation of opportunities. You KNOW the "Dragon Queen" isn't going to be content on the other side of the ocean...and the return of a certain someone, formerly most seriously dead, certainly brings a whole new bundle of riddles to the party.

The final great mystery...who the heck will survive?

My two favorite traits are forititude and practicality. I'm always going to root for the character that gets beaten down, stands up, beaten down, and stands up. Again and again, without falling into endless wells of self-pity, self-loathing, or "berserker rage". And, the character that does what is necessary. A character in a good novel that does only what is right and pure guarantees one of two things: a deus ex machina where all the villains disappear or convert off camera, or his/her own death. I'm not for villainy as a recreational pasttime, but when there's reason...

Other authors I enjoy...Guy Gavriel Kay (I'll buy his grocery list...), Glen Cook (I wanna join the Black Company and get a cool name like Croaker!), Robin Hobb (I couldn't get into the Liveship series, but FitzChivalry is back!), CJ Cherryh (I'm not wild about the newer fantasy, but the sci-fi is still wonderfully fun in that "I have a headache" way)...

There's more, but all my books are packed away...

I've enjoyed the Dragonlance books (just finished Book II of the Souls thingy), but it doesn't come close to engaging me like the above authors. Weis & Hickman are the pop music of fantasy fiction. Even when it yearns for depth and sincerity, there's still a lively beat and a gnome in the background. I gave up Eddings ages ago. I've started WoT twice, and still can't care enough to read book 2. Goodkind I've read once, and again...can't care enough to read book 2.

Cheers for now,
Nell.

 

[Ace]

SNIP

I love to read Vachess, anybody else read him?

Andrew Vachss is downright amazing, Dark Scary and Moody. Burke and his crew, while criminals, have at least a baseline mmorality. Burke may have a primary goal of survival but he is willing to take big risks to help stop pedophiles and that redeems him.

IIf anyone here hasn't read Andrew Vachss do it. Start with Flood, his first, best and most approachable.
You won't regret it .

 

[Dr Midnight]

Uh, isn't that pretty much the way the real world works?

No, we live in a reality where people like variety... people want an attractive spouse, but don't mind or even pursue something that looks unlike everything else. What we're talking about is a society wherein everyone likes only one variation of any given thing. Sure, evolution would keep throwing up mutations to see if our tastes are changing, but otherwise we'd all be pretty freakin' content.

Sorry, had to get that wrangle in. Go on with the chlorophyll.

 

[poop]

OMG HUGE SPOILER OF MAXIMUMNESS AHEAD












I HAVE WARNED YOU












I cannot help but pick Sandor Clegane as my favorite character. He knows exactly what he is, knows that he can't change it (at first, that is), and has his own sense of right and wrong that he follows to the letter. While willing to kill when he deems it necessary, he doesn't do it needlessly, and he doesn't do it when he doesn't agree with the reasoning.

SPOILER RIGHT HERE>>>>>>>>Can anyone tell me if they've got any inside information as to whether or not said character has survived his ordeal at the end of the 3rd book to live on into the next?

 

[Furn_Darkside]

SPOILER RIGHT HERE>>>>>>>>Can anyone tell me if they've got any inside information as to whether or not said character has survived his ordeal at the end of the 3rd book to live on into the next?

Salutes,

I think the comic book rule is good here- until the reader "views" a body, then no one is dead. And, sometimes, even then...

FD