D&D 4E What I'd Like to See in D&D® 4e

[Ranger REG]

10. Art from the 2e TSR cover artists, or from genuinely unusual line drawing stylists (like the concept artists for Warcraft). I hate the dungeonpunk look, and some of the art just seems technically poor. The latter could be a deadline issue, too, and isn't exclusive to 3e by any means.

Such artists (Elmore and Parkinson) are now expensive, unless you prefer rehashed artworks (the ones owned by TSR and now by WotC).

9. No core setting influencing the mechanics... or at least options and clear ways to change it. This applies to the classes (paladin, RANGER!), but especially to the races (dwarven giant bonus).

What class features are Greyhawk-specific?

 

[reanjr]

I had a sarcastic remark about "More Babes!" queued up and ready to go, but your suggestion will suffice. As long as we are talking winged, elven devilish babes,




That, too. The Book of Iron Might is great, but I can't imagine either DM I know going with it unless the ideas are core.

Since you mentioned it, the Book of Iron Might is pretty much exactly the type of thing I'm looking for in a 4e. Except all the rules should be done like that. The Battlemind feats are a great example of taking an idea and modularizing it. A DM can simply say, I am going to use Battlemind feats, or I am not going to use Battlemind feats.

The combat maneuver system is great stand in replacement for the current trip, disarm, sunder rules. They could just sit there side by side and you could pick one or the other subsystem at your whim and not worry about the ramifications. You could even drop one system and start using another mid-game or per battle. I don't expect to be able to do that with everything, but Mearls goes way beyond being an impressive designer, in my opinion. He is the type of designer I think should be at the forefront of creating a new edition.

 

[reanjr]

Lets' see;

Have four powers, Arcane opposing Nature and Divine opposing Psionics. They would interact like the four elements do.

But then you are dictating campaign flavor with you rules. Flavor should dicate rules, not vice versa.

 

[FireLance]

5. A removal of the "Improved" tree of feats (Sunder, Grapple, Bull Rush, etc.). Those actions should be standard to the combat system.

Actually, you can sunder, grapple, bull rush and trip without the Improved x feat. The feat just gives you a bonus to the maneuver and allows you perform them without attracting an AOO (and Improved Trip gives you an extra attack if your trip attempt succeeds). Or are you suggesting that the base maneuvers should not provoke AOOs so they will be used more often?

The sentiment behind this statement would be better directed at the Track feat and the Trapfinding class ability, IMO.

 

[Anton]

What I Want

Well first i would want a "basic class" system like D20 Modern, where characters need around 3 levels of base class to qualify for the core classes (fighter, wizard ect.) This would allow somone to create a first level "character", who just picked up a sword and started hacking at goblins, or a fourth level "Hero", who is a master at combat or arcane might.

I would also like to see much more attention given to crafting. I know to some its boring but I feel like any point put into crafting skills are waisted in 3.X. Have a system that makes creating an item as dependent on the skill of the craftsperson as upon the power of the mage enchanting it.

A move to a power point system for all magics.

A level based bonus to defence and have armor give DR.

Make the core rulse support leveling up to 50 maybe.

instead of "weapons proficiency X" give players a number of points to decide what weapons they can pick (i.e gaining proficiency with a simple weapons costs 1pt a martial weapons costs 2pt)

In all i want the crunch of 3.x with alot of optional AD&D fluff.

 

[Steverooo]

I'd like to see Rangers be able to do anything in a typical survival manual, and in a reasonably quick period of time. This includes setting snares, deadfalls, pits (with or without spikes), and limb traps, using the Survival skill. Sure, if he wants to spend a week forging metal and beating it on the anvil, then add some springs, nuts, and bolts to make a bear trap, let him use the Trapmaking rules in the DMG, but if all he wants to do is to set snares for his DC:10 Survival check to find food in the wild, he shouldn't need a week and 1,000 GP to do it!

I'd like to see the Trapmaking system fleshed out, made some sense of, and applied to Rogues, as well.

I'd like to see Invisibility restored to the 1e -4 to hit, instead of the "you can't hit what you can't see" shield of invulnerability that it is now. I'd like to see Spider Climb, and such-like simply grant the caster 3+1/level ranks in Climb (or whatever), instead of making skills nerfed to worthlessness. Truestrike does the same for BAB.

If you want to get rid of Vancian Magic, first reduce spells to a power level equal to weapons (1D6 / 1D8 / 1D10 damage, x2 / x3 / x4 on a critical) then give them a "To-Hit" or "Miss" chance, just like a Fighter with his weapons. THEN you can allow casters unlimited uses/day, as long as they have their components, just like Fighters have unlimited attacks as long as they have their swords, and Rogues have unlimited lockpicking attempts so long as they have their tools.

Make PCs more capable, and Feats less picky. Any PC can strike unarmed, attempt a trip, sunder, disarm, etc., without provoking an AoO.

Go back to three attacks in two rounds being the most that any PC can make (as in 1e). Speed up combat.

Let the Cloak & Boots of Elvenkind replace the PC's rolls of 1-10 with a 19, and 11-20 with 20, instead of adding anything to Hide/Move Silently, and at the same cost as an "at will" first level spell item (Truestrike). This is closer to what the item originally did, and makes it useful, again, without the inordinate cost.

Give everyone the same skill points/level, but also +1 Rank of each Class Skill at every level (Pick one, for Craft, Knowledge, Perform, and Profession). Again, PCs become more capable, and they can max out a skill and it will STAY maxed out, and they can pick up more Cross-Class Skills.

Put skills together, where they can be, and make all of them more important. Make magic less able to nerf skill use! (For instance, Knowledge (Arcana) should be knowledge of all things magical, and include Spellcraft and Concentration).

Hide regains the inclusion of camouflage within in, and thus you can camo yourself to "hide in plain sight", again, returning a good Hide (and Move Quiety) skill to be about as good as Invisibility. You can also hide and object, etc.

Give every level a new ability, or at least a Feat from a list (smaller than the Fighter's). No more empty levels.

New uses for skills. Appraise opponents. Hide objects. More uses for Knowledges and Professions.

More choices. Each Class, for instance, should have a list of Feats, like the Fighter, with certain new Feats available only to certain classes (although Rogues and Bards will share many Feats, for example). Use these to fill those "empty" levels.

Make most (if not all) class abilities Feats. So you can have a Monk with Trapfinding, and a Ranger with Uncanny Dodge and Fast Movement, for example.

Allow "Magical Incorporation", instead of magic items... Thus, for 1,000 GP, a PC gains the ability for any weapon they wield to become magical (+1). For more money, they can increase this Enhancement Bonus to +5. They could also add other affects, such as a +1 Luck Bonus to all saves, etc. This is still treated the same as a magic item, and limited by wealth, the only difference is, they can't be taken away.

...

I don't really expect to see any of that, but... it would be nice (and what I WANT to see in 4e)!

 

[Gort]

I want to see a re-balancing of the classes, especially the spellcasting ones. Clerics and druids have access to very powerful magic, and yet pay pretty much none of the cost that a wizard does in BAB, HD, and saves. Especially at higher levels, the spellcasting classes utterly dominate the game. Tone down the power of these casters, and bring the wizard and sorceror up somewhat, and tone down the cleric and druid. Somewhere in the D6 HP, one good save, light armour area. Possibly even a single spellcasting class who can choose from the four spheres of magic (Natural, Divine, Psionic, Arcane) where each sphere has its advantages and disadvantages. I don't see them ever making such a large magic system as D&Ds easy to learn, so I won't hope for that, but at least trouble-shoot some of the worst offending spells. (IMO, Tashas Hideous Laughter and Ottos Irresistable Dance are horrific, along with Animal Growth)

Grappling has got to be re-done. Once you're into the realm of giants grappling halflings, it is impossible for the halfling to win, even if he rolls a 20 and the giant rolls a 1. That'd be all well and good if it was a simple contest of strength, but the halfling could be climbing all over the giant, making himself unreachable - and a +1 bonus to his touch AC just isn't good enough to cut it.

I'd like to see a re-examination of the huge enemies in general. There is a lot more to swatting a fly than how strong you are. I'd prefer to see more "the giants club comes crashing down, crushing the tomb you were standing on. You jump off to the side and gather yourself for the next attack" than we do at the minute. Giants should have a hard time hitting you, but if they do, you're unconscious at least. Possibly an integral power-attack for larger monsters?

 

[Mouseferatu]

If you want to get rid of Vancian Magic, first reduce spells to a power level equal to weapons (1D6 / 1D8 / 1D10 damage, x2 / x3 / x4 on a critical) then give them a "To-Hit" or "Miss" chance, just like a Fighter with his weapons. THEN you can allow casters unlimited uses/day, as long as they have their components, just like Fighters have unlimited attacks as long as they have their swords, and Rogues have unlimited lockpicking attempts so long as they have their tools.

I've thought of this. I like the idea in theory, but it has some serious flaws.

Okay, so I can use "fire blade" (or whatever) unlimited times. What about charm person? Fly?? Teleport? Wall of stone? Can I use those unlimited times per day as well? If so, that's clearly unbalanced. If not, why? I hate the idea of a class that can use offensive spells with no limit, but has a limit on others. It's an arbitrary division. And if we design a spellcaster who can use all his spells at will, like the warlock, we have to completely nerf the higher level spells.

No, whether it's times per day, spell points, or something else entirely, the game must have limits on the number of uses a caster can get out of his spells. Otherwise they really will dominate the game, without any question about it.

 

[reanjr]

I've thought of this. I like the idea in theory, but it has some serious flaws.

Okay, so I can use "fire blade" (or whatever) unlimited times. What about charm person? Fly?? Teleport? Wall of stone? Can I use those unlimited times per day as well? If so, that's clearly unbalanced. If not, why? I hate the idea of a class that can use offensive spells with no limit, but has a limit on others. It's an arbitrary division. And if we design a spellcaster who can use all his spells at will, like the warlock, we have to completely nerf the higher level spells.

No, whether it's times per day, spell points, or something else entirely, the game must have limits on the number of uses a caster can get out of his spells. Otherwise they really will dominate the game, without any question about it.

That's easy enough. When you cast another charm person, the old one dispels automatically. Fly can simply be increased in level and require concentration of some kind. Teleport can take a long time to cast. Wall of Stone has a non-instantaneous duration.

 

[Mouseferatu]

That's easy enough. When you cast another charm person, the old one dispels automatically. Fly can simply be increased in level and require concentration of some kind. Teleport can take a long time to cast. Wall of Stone has a non-instantaneous duration.

I'm just not convinced it's that easy. There are just too many spells that, no matter what's done to them, grow problematic if they're allowed at will. Even if teleport takes time to cast, it's still easily abusable. Even temporary walls of stone can utterly end/destroy a confrontation. Illusions? Summoning?

I'll admit, I probably misspoke when I said the game "must" have limits per day. It might be more accurate to say that switching to a system like this would involve a change in absolutely every fundamental aspect of the game. It wouldn't just impact spellcasters, but the entire way the system is put together. Monsters, magic items, etc. I think people would be surprised at how little of the game we know now would remain recognizable.

Frankly, there comes a point where it simply isn't D&D anymore. That may work for some people, but it doesn't work for me. I would love to see a system like this put together--as part of another D20 fantasy game, or even a book of D&D options, like Unearthed Arcana. I cannot tell you how strongly I would not want to see it as the core system, though.