D&D 4E What I'd Like to See in D&D® 4e

[Droogie]

my wishlist

1.Consolidation of skills. Many have mentioned it, and I agree. Blue Rose is actually doing this already (perception skill is listen + spot , I assume)

Listen + Spot + search + sense motive = perception?
Roll knowledge arcana into spellcraft (good one, steve). As for concentration, why not use a Will save for concentration checks? One more skill eliminated.
balance + tumble = acrobatics?
swim + jump +climb = athletics?
diplomacy + intimidate + bluff = persuasion?
hide + move s. + disguise (maybe) = stealth
Why the heck are disable device and open lock separate skills?

blah blah blah. Anyway, I'd like to see skills very broad, whereas feats simply focus certain tasks, just like the survival/track combo.

2. Consolidate feats. How about rolling improved initiative into alertness? The feat could grant +2 to initiative and +2 to perception.

3. Goodbye, vancian system. I'd like to see a skill-based magic system as well, similar to Blue Rose or Sovereign Stone.

4. I like class-based Magic Bonuses and Defense Bonuses too. And wouldn't it be nice if a wand gave a +2 to your magic bonus rather than acting like a fantasy ray-gun with 'ammo'?

Of course, these are drastic changes, making backwards compatibility a serious issue. That's why I'm not holding my breath on most of these ideas, but hey, one can dream.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Memorize loads of spell information? Have you never heard of note cards or anything?

As part of my character spreadsheet, I have a table listing my spells known, schools, saves, ranges, effects, damage, etc. I've found that this prevents me from needing to look up any but the most unusual of spells.

Granted, this is for a warmage, which isn't complicated. However, I was going to do one for my epic psion (including data on augmented metapowered powers so I wouldn't have to add), but the game died before I could get started on it.

Brad

 

[Doctor Shaft]

It sounds like a majority of the desired changes are basically already available, just not consolidated into a pretty package titled "D&D 4.0".

But hey, it's fun giving out our ideas.

A few of mine.

Integrating the skills list into combat. D&D is such a combat oriented game. And yet, it boggles my mind how many skills there are, and how often you CAN'T really use them for anything except special circumstances.

For instance. We know when we play a game that a DM will have combat. So of course, maxing out stuff like AC, BAB, etc., has some kind of direct effect on the campaign. But... the moment you try to do something that doesn't directly affect combat... it's like you're cutting off your own arms.

It would be nice if combat and skills weren't so separated from each other. At least create skills so that they have some kind of synergistic properties (although they could be minor).

For instance, hide and move silently, while not "combat" can still have an affect on it. However, jump is a skill that... well, rarely comes into play. It's a prereq for some third-party feats and classes, but otherwise, why pump any points into this. We can give the lame answer "for when you have to jump over that crevice or leap onto something." But... who cares? Cast fly and fly over it. Basically, unless a DM makes a very special point of utilizing your climb skills, you jump skills, and every other skill that doesn't have an affect on your swining that shiny great axe at the opponent, it becomes just another "dump skill" or "dump stat" for when you don't have much anywhere else to prioritize things.

And yes, please consolidate the list. Jump, Climb and Tumble are three categories. Most players will simply dump most of their stuff into tumble, since it has a direct combat affect... the other two are completely reliant on a DM setting up a specific scenario.

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

Instead of the fire n forget system, how about a true spell point system similar to Elements of Magic so it's possible to alter make a spell's effects, making it weaker, stronger, etc.? Similarly make it more generic to simplify things kinda like how Savage Worlds does it (a short list of spells).

Squish in some reasonable unarmed combat rules.

Simplify the 'changes' that happened between 3.0 and 3.5 like the weapon sizes.

Defense bonus instead of the current turtle AC system so armor isn't a requirement for survival.

Lose the magic item dependence syndrome or have the item 'level' with the character.

Somehow give more incentive not to jump into other classes.

 

[Trainz]

I would like to see: [...] 3. Actions simplified so that a character gets only two actions per round - or even one action, with rounds becoming 5 seconds rather than 10.

Rounds are currently 6 seconds, not 10.

I guess you got THAT one already. Rejoyce !

 

[reanjr]

For example... But it still leaves some doubts when a high-level (10th) character takes its first level in a new class (Monk) and is suddenly able to e.g. deal unarmed damage as a 11th level Monk. Not everything probably should be based on character-level. In any case, I'd like this sort of things to be addressed and something figured out.

I agree that's a problem, but I think it's less strange than the 15th level wizard who takes a level in fighter and suddenly learns how to use every armor and shield type known, and most weapons as well. I don't think everything should be based on character level. For example, I think spell progression should be class level, along with the monk's slow fall and most other special abilities, etc.

 

[reanjr]

Also, point-buy should prevent overspecializing, but without stopping it from happening - if I want to have a 20th level expert with only 3 hitdice, then it should be able to cope with this request. If someone wants to focus overly (like putting everything in BAB and hitdice), then he should can, without being able to unbalance the campaign due to ending up as a special target of the GM. Both Dr. Spunj's and Thanee's system assume a commoner as base and limit everything like the core classes, so they are out. Furthermore, adding new options should be easy and allow a correct pricing - nothing more annoying, if an ability should cost 3.5 points, but you can only pay 3 or 4 points. Granularity is the keyword.

This isn't too difficult. I have a system that seems to handle most of these pretty well. Although there is no such thing as a an "expert" in the system. Or 20th level for that matter. Or hit dice. But the analogues are all there, and you can specialize like mad (Just tested some characters out, one player put everything into the Great Axe; at the equivilent of an estimated 4th level, he had a something like +23 to hit with the Great Axe, +10 to hit with other axes, and +3 to hit with other large, brutish weapons, and 10 hit points - he could do absolutely nothing else, and due to the system's death and dying rules, he probably would go down really quickly, but cause lots of damage while he was up, as he could attack 6 times in a round and still have similar chance to hit as anyone else in the party). Yet without specializing, you are rewarded by having much more effectiveness overall. One of the players made a character who specialized in wacky combat maneuvers (pretty much dragged from Book of Iron Might, basically there is a combat maneuver score that offsets the penalty for using combat maneuvers). He could be the master of pulling off spiffy stunts with his weapon, but to conserve XP, he focused on the Rapier. So he could do wacky stunts with the rapier, but no other weapon (he could do them, he just wasn't any better at them than anyone else). He planned on adding more general stunt-capability later on; but he would always remain better with the rapier.

If you want to talk to me more about it, send me an e-mail reanjr@wwnet.net

 

[reanjr]

For me, I want to KEEP THE VANCIAN SYSTEM. It's my holy cow. Every other system uses spell points and well, the other systems aren't D&D.

There are many more options than Vancian and Spell Point. Look at the Warlock for one example. I know of several others, too.

 

[ptolemy18]

The elimination of LEVELS. .

Why not just the elimination of D&D altogether? :/

If I wanted to play a game without levels, where an experienced character actually CAN be killed by a lucky hit from a normal person, I'd play Cthulhu or Kult or something... and I frequently do.

But D&D is about characters rising from wimpiness to superheroic Epic-level awesomeness. So D&D should have levels.

Besides... most non-pen-and-paper RPGers are already familiar & happy with the idea of levels, from the vast majority of video-game RPGs and online RPGs. Why fix what's not broken? I agree that levels aren't "realistic", and they aren't good for all game types (I'd argue that they suck for wannabe-realistic systems like d20 Modern), but they *are* D&D.

Jason

 

[ptolemy18]

Other than that...I dunno. Not have anachronistic environmentalist druids?

C'mon, SOMEBODY'S gotta be an environmentalist. We're talking about a game where plants and animals can friggin' be talked to, for God's sake... don't tell me they wouldn't get more respect in D&D-land than in our world...

Jason