D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Then obviously by that argument balance is a non-issue and should be ignored. Why are you yucking in other people’s yum?

Again, evidence please. Not theory crafting but actual evidence.

Your argument was that it's popular, so it must be OK.

Evidence doesn't matter when the average person can barely do math. And when presented with concrete evidence that maybe bows should do more damage they just stick their fingers in their ears and insisted it was good despite parses and evidence otherwise. And shouted down any attempts to improve the class like it was a personal affront. As though it wouldn't be fun if they could deal similar damage to the other ranged damage dealers.

Another case in point - City of Heroes has a damage formula for how much damage a power is supposed to deal based on activation/recharge, etc. Some electrical powers werent following the formula, and dealing too little (or recharging too slowly, or whatever). And every time we'd ask for it to be fixed within the games rules, we'd get shouted down by a number of players who said it was fine as is. Because cognitive dissonance is a beast, and if they recognized that the powerset had any flaws then I guess they felt foolish for playing it or something.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Proof please.

One could just as easily say that white board theory crafting, while good for identifying potential problems, is not proof of actual problems and that no problem actually exists.

It’s such an elitist position to take. “Oh if you were just a real gamer and not some casual, you’d obviously understand the problem”. It’s based on nothing.

Where’s your evidence? Have you tracked class performance over time across hundreds or thousands of tables? Or is this just yet another “oh well in my experience “ ball of nothing?

Mostly that second one. Math may be more accurate, but it rarely effects actual change.

 

[Mecheon]

People have been debating the validity of the Monk class for so long it's not funny. Point by point dissertations have been made by very smart people, and yet, people not only still play Monks, they defend them with great vigor, perhaps more steadfastly than even Fighter players.

Monks are absolutely the lowest tier of classes

But.... They're not at an unplayable level. They're still yonks ahead of Truenamer and Samurai from 3.5e, in that they work and function as intended and you can contribute. Its just that, you're going to absolutely notice that you're lagging behind other characters in the party

 

[Oofta]

Your argument was that it's popular, so it must be OK.

...

Isn't that kind of the point of a mass market product? To be popular?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Okay, I haven't read through the previous 30 pages of posts - just answering the original question (and apologies if I'm repeating anyone else).

No, PLEASE repeat, I want to count all the occurrences of each objection this weekend with I summarize the thread.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I like a whole lot about 5e.

To me 5e feels like a star player on a team with a few good teammates. But the coach and team owner are forcing them to play their way against their strengths.

Watching something be held back due to biases irks me.

interesting take... and I can't say I disagree

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Monks are absolutely the lowest tier of classes

But.... They're not at an unplayable level. They're still yonks ahead of Truenamer and Samurai from 3.5e, in that they work and function as intended and you can contribute. Its just that, you're going toa bsolutely notice that you're lagging behind other characters in the party

I mean, the difficulty bar is so low on 5E that you could simply not write your class abilities on your sheet after 1st level and be OK.

 

[James Gasik]

I thought we had a thread to put the whole "good =/= popular" debate to bed.

(Checks).

Hey Oofta, wasn't that your thread?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Isn't that kind of the point of a mass market product? To be popular?

and this is why Batman V Superman is not just one of the best comic book movies ever made but top 20 movie ever made.

 

[Oofta]

I like a whole lot about 5e.

To me 5e feels like a star player on a team with a few good teammates. But the coach and team owner are forcing them to play their way against their strengths.

Watching something be held back due to biases irks me.

How do you feel they're held back? What should they be? There are all sorts of things you could target, anything from the Kung Fu TV shows (70s or current) to The Last Airbender to ... well I'm probably not the one to ask.

Me? I'd like to see the rules for rests modified, swapping recovery between short an long rests doesn't really work very well. It looks like that could be an option in the anniversary edition, I just don't expect a full rewrite of any class.