D&D 5E What if Psionics is a kind of Divine magic?

[TheCosmicKid]

Sure, but my understanding was that you were saying a mind/body/soul trichotomy wouldn't work in Greek because 'mind' and 'soul' are the same word/concept. And if that's what you were saying, it is not the case. (For that matter, even if it were the case, most of us are not playing D&D in Greek.)

The word 'psychology' goes back much further than Freud. I don't know exactly why it's 'psychology' rather than 'noology', but I suspect it has something to do with a focus on emotional health and well-being. 'Noology' might be a better term for what we call 'cognitive science' instead: the study of the intellect specifically. Intellect vs. emotion being a very common dividing line in this mind/soul dichotomy.

 

[Curmudjinn]

I’m with you, pretty much. I don’t mind psychic abilities in fantasy, but in D&D, I’ve never been happy with psionics. The rules have always seemed to be poorly balanced and/or easily exploited.

For my part, I’d be happy with psionics just being paths for existing classes like the monk, sorcerer, and indeed, cleric could work too. If they have to be there at all.

I'm in the same boat as you, Ralif. I've always loved the concept of psionics in D&D, but the rules have never made a proper fit. In 3.5, you either made a completely worthless psionic character or a machine of destruction, mechanically, and neither really felt like anything but reskinned arcane magic.

I've been working on my own psionic-related project on and off since the release of 5th edition, to really show how I feel psionics can be, and with the release of the DMs Guild, I can publish it for everyone to use and get it into the public eye. Something totally different from the current forms of casting.

 

[Yaarel]

Sure, but my understanding was that you were saying a mind/body/soul trichotomy wouldn't work in Greek because 'mind' and 'soul' are the same word/concept. And if that's what you were saying, it is not the case.

(For that matter, even if it were the case, most of us are not playing D&D in Greek.)

Your concern is correct. ‘Psyche’ doesnt mean ‘mind’.

Earlier, there was a suggestion to divide the trichotomy as follows.

• Mind ≈ Psionics
• Soul ≈ Divine
• Body ≈ Arcane

The problem with the above assignment is, the Psyche means the soul and consciousness. So rather, ‘Soul ≈ Psionics’. Also, the Divine is the power of symbols, archetypes, ideals, ethics, cultural values, traditions, thoughts. So moreso, ‘Divine ≈ Mind’.

• Mind ≈ Divine
• Soul ≈ Psionic
• Body ≈ healing

All of these are aspects of the Divine.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

The problem with the above assignment is, the Psyche means the soul and consciousness.

More like 'soul' in the sense of 'animating force'. The most literal translation is 'breath'. Nonsapient organisms have a psyche. Human consciousness is, again, nous.

So rather, ‘Soul ≈ Psionics’.

There's about a two millennium gap between the Greek philosophers' definition of psyche and the coinage of the word 'psionics'. In that time, and in the transition from Greek to English, the root had ample time to evolve in meaning -- as we've already seen with the word 'psychology'. There's no more reason to believe that 'psionics' must refer specifically to the Greek concept of the psyche than there is to believe that 'politics' must refer specifically to the Greek concept of the polis. And in fact, in common usage, it's pretty definitely "mind ≈ psionics".

Also, the Divine is the power of symbols, archetypes, ideals, ethics, cultural values, traditions, thoughts.

The divine is the power of gods. I know you don't like gods, but that's not the word's problem.

Now, gods are externalized symbols, archetypes, ideals, and ethics. That is to say, they are those things envisioned as existing independent of the human mind. That's kind of the whole point. And psionics does exactly the reverse by internalizing reality, proposing that what appears to be an objective world is actually subject to influence by the human mind. So it's hard to imagine a bigger contrast in approach to the supernatural. They're not the same; they're diametric opposites.

 

[Yaarel]

Nonsapient life has consciousness in the sense of the ability to feel pain.

 

[Yaarel]

Modern philosophy still equates the divine with the mind, reason, rationalism, spirit, numinous, thought, idealism, etcetera.

 

[Yaarel]

Contemporary philosophy is perhaps especially interested in the scientific oddities of the impact of the ‘conscious observer’. This especially relates to the concept of Psionics, and is an other way of saying the ‘soul’.

 

[Yaarel]

If I remember correctly, one of the current Popes described an angel as a kind of ‘intellect’. In other words, according to his worldview, an angel is an aspect of Mind.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Modern philosophy still equates the divine with the mind, reason, rationalism, spirit, numinous, thought, idealism, etcetera.

No, in modern philosophy, as in lay usage, 'divine' simply means 'pertaining to gods or (most usually) God'. See.

Contemporary philosophy is perhaps especially interested in the scientific oddities of the impact of the ‘conscious observer’. This especially relates to the concept of Psionics, and is an other way of saying the ‘soul’.

Common misconception, but there are no "scientific oddities of the impact of the 'conscious observer' ". Quantum observer effects have nothing to do with consciousness and everything to do with the fact that (very roughly speaking) in order to observe something you have to bounce something else off of it. Even were this not the case, I don't see how it it would have anything to to with a mental superpower in a magical fantasy world, or how it is in any sense "another way of saying the 'soul' ".

If I remember correctly, one of the current Popes described an angel as a kind of ‘intellect’. In other words, according to his worldview, an angel is an aspect of Mind.

This is getting into specifically Christian and most specifically Catholic theology about the divine intellect ("In the beginning there was the logos, and the logos was with God, and the logos was God..."). It's not generally true.

 

[Yaarel]

Quantum mechanics has discovered a ‘nexus’ between the consciousness and matter. It can help to read more scientific papers.