D&D 5E What if Warlocks were the only spellcasters?

[HammerMan]

Celestial Warlock, Mercy Monk, Thief Rogue with the Healer feat, Charisma based Battlemaster Fighter with the Inspiring leader feat...

There is alternatives

keeping the secretes any warlock can pick up healing... and if you include druid spells I am 99% sure cure wounds is on there list

 

[Dausuul]

If we had an otherwise typical D&D world in which magic is the domain of magical creatures and particularly outsiders, and the only way for mortals to gain magic powers is through warlock pacts, what would the consequences of that be? What implications could that have for society, and how would it impact parties of PCs?

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

While I enjoy 5E, the very high magic level assumed in all settings does grind my gears. I prefer my settings to be more Hyboria than Middle-Earth*, and this change would do a lot to support that. Personally, I would want to couple it with a tightly restricted race list. It would be either humans-only, or humans and "human-plus" races (tieflings, half-elves, hexbloods, et cetera).

One effect on society would be that any time you see a spellcaster, you know that person has a Boss somewhere, and the question of who that Boss is becomes of paramount importance. Each society would have a list of patrons they were okay with, and patrons that were extremely not okay. Also, the warlock spell list is very short on spells that let you create permanent or long-lasting area effects. So you wouldn't see much of that.

From a player perspective, I think you would see warlocks being stretched to cover the roles normally given to other types of casters. The "arcane blaster" role would go to the patrons that grant access to fireball (the Fiend, the Genie). The "healer" role would go to Celestial warlocks. Tomelocks would be favorites for utility spells. Also, play would shift to emphasize the short rest over the long rest, since all of the classes that rely heavily on daily resources have been whacked.

...You know, I may pitch this to the players for the next campaign I run. Most of them favor martial PCs, and they overwhelmingly prefer humans to any other race, so it would be a good fit. There are only two dedicated "caster players" in the group, and one of them is me, so I just need to make sure the other guy is okay with it.

*Actually, even Middle-Earth is considerably lower-magic than D&D.

 

[HammerMan]

...You know, I may pitch this to the players for the next campaign I run. Most of them favor martial PCs, and they overwhelmingly prefer humans to any other race, so it would be a good fit. There are only two dedicated "caster players" in the group, and one of them is me, so I just need to make sure the other guy is okay with it.

I again will try to sell the middle earth book... it's D20 martial classes work great in low magic settings (giving a ranger and even a bard without magic)

 

[Undrave]

Of course, lots of people would cry bitterly that they are not allowed to play their favorite pet class. That's obvious. But for the sake of this discussion, let's assume we're dealing only with groups of players who think it would be cool to have a campaign in which only barbarians, fighters, monks, rogues, and warlocks exist as classes for both PCs and NPCs.

The implementation of warlocks in 5th edition is one of the coolest things in the game, and there are plenty of people who are really big fans of the class, both for how it plays mechanically, and what the class represents in the game world.

If we had an otherwise typical D&D world in which magic is the domain of magical creatures and particularly outsiders, and the only way for mortals to gain magic powers is through warlock pacts, what would the consequences of that be? What implications could that have for society, and how would it impact parties of PCs?

That seems really cool... but what do you do with the more magical subclasses? The Barbarians that tap into primal magics or invoke ghosts, the Monk of the Four Elements, the Shadow Monk, the Arcane Trickers, Eldtrich Knight, Runic Knight, the psionic subclasses...

That setting could really use a Warlord too.

Or the other way to do it is that magic is still pretty common, and going out and making a pact with a magical creature to gain power is simply the way it's done. Having your master summon an imp to make a pact with, or going out in the forest to find a minor fey to bind, is simply the normal progression for a budding mage. Going out young and finding a rare creature or spirit to bind is a mark of distinction.

I could see the various feats that grant magic basically being 'minor pacts' or boons from magical beings.

I think you'll find that typical adventure design principles may run into issues, in that Warlocks are not really geared for utility/buff casting, and very quickly have to fall back on cantrips.

D&D should still be possible without a spell caster in the group, otherwise the mundane classes are specifically weaker than the magical class and the designers are lying to us by not stating it out loud. They'll just have to "role-play more" to be useful out of combat, like what people tell Fighters when they say they don't get enough stuff to do outside of combat.

That would probably end up with more interesting problem solving IMO.

 

[Yora]

What about sub-classes that have magic? Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster have spells that are more 'normal' than the warlock. Would they just not exist or maybe these upstart schools of magic are feared by the guilds of warlocks and are at odds with traditions.

That seems really cool... but what do you do with the more magical subclasses? The Barbarians that tap into primal magics or invoke ghosts, the Monk of the Four Elements, the Shadow Monk, the Arcane Trickers, Eldtrich Knight, Runic Knight, the psionic subclasses...

My original idea was to really make it "Pact Magic is the only spellcasting ability", but that doesn't have the magic buzzword "warlock" in the title.

Certainly an option to have eldritch knights and arcane tricksters still being able to use their arcane magic with wizard scrolls and such, but I think that wouldn't be as interesting in regards to worldbuilding. And if fighters and rogues can study this kind of book magic part time, why couldn't there be scholars who do it full time? I think the existence of eldritch knights and arcane tricksters automatically implies the existence of wizards as well.

I think in a warlock only setting, patrons would effectively take the roll of gods. Though they might be a separate and hostile pantheon to the gods worshiped by ordinary people. Those traditional deities would become very distant powers that are not really reachable by mortal means, while the patrons could literally live on some mountain or in a great forest and could be visited just by walking.

It also occured to me only now that the 5th edition implementation of warlocks reminds me kind of a bit of the vestige binders from 3rd. Those didn't have a fixed patron and could switch and combine them with a simple ritual, but I think there's a lot that could be taken from there for making a patron focused setting.

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Well, since you asked, it's Spriggan's Den – Yora's site for Sword & Sorcery RPGs. But I don't usually do 5th edition stuff. (It's just the warlock is so cool conceptually, and the mechanics almost mirror in the mage class of Worlds Without Number.)

 

[schneeland]

My original idea was to really make it "Pact Magic is the only spellcasting ability", but that doesn't have the magic buzzword "warlock" in the title.
...
I think in a warlock only setting, patrons would effectively take the roll of gods. Though they might be a separate and hostile pantheon to the gods worshiped by ordinary people. Those traditional deities would become very distant powers that are not really reachable by mortal means, while the patrons could literally live on some mountain or in a great forest and could be visited just by walking.

So first of all: I like the idea! Magic not being accessible through study, but only through pacts with powerful entities would actually make it feel more magical IMO (one of the reasons why I like wizards in Dungeon Crawl Classics). I tend to say to keep the general D&D flavour, "pact magic is the only magic" would work better as clerically inclined warlocks could then align themselves with angels or other beings from the positive planes, while others would seek out fey creatures or consort with demons. I think there should be a mechanical representation of the patron becoming displeased with their follower (be it random tables or something else), so magic is also not 100% reliable.
The other nice thing besides flavor would be that the limited number of incantations of the warlock removes a lot of the option paralysis that exists especially around classes with access to the full spell list. So it would probably also speed up conflict in the game.

 

[HammerMan]

D&D should still be possible without a spell caster in the group, otherwise the mundane classes are specifically weaker than the magical class and the designers are lying to us by not stating it out loud. They'll just have to "role-play more" to be useful out of combat, like what people tell Fighters when they say they don't get enough stuff to do outside of combat.

yup... they lie like rugs

 

[Islayre d'Argolh]

Certainly an option to have eldritch knights and arcane tricksters still being able to use their arcane magic with wizard scrolls and such, but I think that wouldn't be as interesting in regards to worldbuilding. And if fighters and rogues can study this kind of book magic part time, why couldn't there be scholars who do it full time? I think the existence of eldritch knights and arcane tricksters automatically implies the existence of wizards as well.

No need for them : now we have the Psy warrior and the Soulknife from Tasha's.
The only magic without Patron is Psionic power !

 

[Bacon Bits]

The implementation of warlocks in 5th edition is one of the coolest things in the game, and there are plenty of people who are really big fans of the class, both for how it plays mechanically, and what the class represents in the game world.

Eh, I don't agree. I think there is an extremely cool and deeply thematic implementation of the warlock class, but I don't think that is what we actually got in 5e.

Simply put, rules as written, the warlock pact has no teeth. Your patron has no influence or control over you. Paladins have the "breaking your oath" sidebar. Warlocks don't. There are no penalties and no actual sacrifices that have to be made to be a warlock. A wizard's spellbook has more influence over their ability to access class abilities than a warlock's patron does. So there's all this deep narrative and stylistic theming around the class, but it just looks dark and brooding and grim. It really isn't. It's just a wizard with a flashy backstory. It says you've made a pact with a dangerous, otherworldly power, but the reality is that you have a bunch of abilities without any obligations at all. Maybe the layaway plan is very popular with cosmic powers in the Forgotten Realms, but it still doesn't make for a particularly interesting narrative.

The warlock as presented is a pizza cutter. All edge, no point.

If we had an otherwise typical D&D world in which magic is the domain of magical creatures and particularly outsiders, and the only way for mortals to gain magic powers is through warlock pacts, what would the consequences of that be? What implications could that have for society, and how would it impact parties of PCs?

My guess is that it would look a lot less like heroic fantasy and a lot more like swords & sorcery. A lot more like Conan, Call of Cthulu, or World of Darkness. Which is probably why in the games designed for those settings -- Conan 2d20, CoC, or Mage -- they have mechanics that enforce that using magic actually is dangerous.

 

[Yora]

No need for them : now we have the Psy warrior and the Soulknife from Tasha's.
The only magic without Patron is Psionic power !

That's also a really cool setting idea.