What If...?

[Rune]

Correct. That is not paradox. It's just the universe wanting him to go the way it wants him to go. If SHE prevents his girlfriend from dying, he never defeats Dormammu without paradox, so she can't do it either. You're reading into her words that which is not there. She tells him the truth. NOBODY can prevent her death.

It's entirely possible that there are two reasons he cannot prevent the death. 1) it would be a paradox. 2) It's a fixed point.

There's no reason to assume that she is lying and paradox is the only reason, if it's even a reason.

I don’t think you and I are operating within the same language. Specifically, when the Ancient One EXPLICITLY describes the reason something cannot be changed as being because it would prevent that change from being possible, that change is what a paradox is!

That’s not an opinion; it’s an objecive definition. If you’re operating on some other definition I’m not aware of, that’s fine, I guess. But I don’t have anything to add to this discussion, since I’ve already said everything I’ve meant to and repeating myself ad infinitum is pointless.

It seems you and I have gotten caught in our own conversational time-loop, but I’m going to have to break free of that. If you wish to continue on, feel free to consider the contents this post my response to any future iterations of that cycle.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Sure, but we saw from the start of Ant-man and the Wasp that he was the only one with the secret to making more. The fact that some have been yanked means that they haven't been used elsewhere, haven't been used up experimenting on them to try to reverse-engineer, or just that the chance match up of (a) the plan to use them to take out the Hulk, (b) someone who knows the Shield or the US gov't stole Pym Particles, and (c) happens while the hulk was still a threat.

For all we know that's something Ross has now in ase Hulk ever goes rogue, but didn't during the Incredible Hulk.

We could litigate timelines related to a series predicated on the existence of alternate universes, but that seems maybe a bit silly.

Ultimately, my real hang-up, such as it is, is that the Hulk can handle the combined energy of the Infinity stones, but a little growth grenade takes him out.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Ultimately, my real hang-up, such as it is, is that the Hulk can handle the combined energy of the Infinity stones, but a little growth grenade takes him out.

Does every version of the Hulk in every timeline have to be equally as powerful and as hard to kill?

 

[Gammadoodler]

Does every version of the Hulk in every timeline have to be equally as powerful and as hard to kill?

Not at all. It was just jarring to see. It's a bit like if Superman got killed by normal bullet.

I eventually got to "Sure, why not, it's speculative mythology anyway", but hadn't had to make that conscious effort to just accept other events in the episode.

 

[Ryujin]

We could litigate timelines related to a series predicated on the existence of alternate universes, but that seems maybe a bit silly.

Ultimately, my real hang-up, such as it is, is that the Hulk can handle the combined energy of the Infinity stones, but a little growth grenade takes him out.

Well considering that means The Hulk essentially took out The Hulk...

 

[Rune]

Not at all. It was just jarring to see. It's a bit like if Superman got killed by normal bullet.

I eventually got to "Sure, why not, it's speculative mythology anyway", but hadn't had to make that conscious effort to just accept other events in the episode.

Really? It seems much more like if Superman was killed by a kryptonite bullet to me. There’s nothing normal about Pym-tech.

Also, Endgame establishes that the Hulk can survive the use of the infinity stones solely because the primary type of radiation they will release (gamma) is exactly the stuff he is uniquely capable of surviving. It isn’t because he’s powerful enough. It’s because gamma radiation is what made him the Hulk in the first place.

And even so, he is still severely wounded by it.

 

[MarkB]

Well considering that means The Hulk essentially took out The Hulk...

Yeah, it's basically the unstoppable force versus the immovable object. The Hulk's infinitely-durable heart is attempting to expand enormously inside his infinitely-durable chest, and something's got to give. Meanwhile, all the blood that got pumped through his heart as it was subjected to the expansion is having the same struggle on a smaller scale against his blood vessels. He literally rips himself apart with his own strength and resilience.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Well considering that means The Hulk essentially took out The Hulk...

It's a contrivance that works because the underlying mechanics are never explained. It's science magic. It works because the writer says it does.

Don't get me wrong, comic books and the MCU have plenty of that. This was just done so more nakedly than others.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Really? It seems much more like if Superman was killed by a kryptonite bullet to me. There’s nothing normal about Pym-tech.

Also, Endgame establishes that the Hulk can survive the use of the infinity stones solely because the primary type of radiation they will release (gamma) is exactly the stuff he is uniquely capable of surviving. It isn’t because he’s powerful enough. It’s because gamma radiation is what made him the Hulk in the first place.

And even so, he is still severely wounded by it.

As

Really? It seems much more like if Superman was killed by a kryptonite bullet to me. There’s nothing normal about Pym-tech.

Also, Endgame establishes that the Hulk can survive the use of the infinity stones solely because the primary type of radiation they will release (gamma) is exactly the stuff he is uniquely capable of surviving. It isn’t because he’s powerful enough. It’s because gamma radiation is what made him the Hulk in the first place.

And even so, he is still severely wounded by it.

As far as I'm aware, there is no canonical link to the Hulk's vulnerability to Pymtech that is remotely equivalent to kryptonite for Superman. I'm certainly not an expert though; perhaps I just haven't seen it. There is, however quite a backlog of traumatic events which the Hulk has survived.

This is also ignoring the particulars of exactly how the Pymtech works. Why does it only effect the heart and not the full body? We didn't see crayons or Thomas the train engine ripped apart by differential expansion. Just here. Of course, the answer has to be "well this one was made especially for the Hulk". And that works, but only because the writers say it does.

It's a punchline with no setup.

 

[Rune]

As

As far as I'm aware, there is no canonical link to the Hulk's vulnerability to Pymtech that is remotely equivalent to kryptonite for Superman. I'm certainly not an expert though; perhaps I just haven't seen it. There is, however quite a backlog of traumatic events which the Hulk has survived.

This is also ignoring the particulars of exactly how the Pymtech works. Why does it only effect the heart and not the full body? We didn't see crayons or Thomas the train engine ripped apart by differential expansion. Just here. Of course, the answer has to be "well this one was made especially for the Hulk". And that works, but only because the writers say it does.

It's a punchline with no setup.

Just to establish a baseline: I don’t think any non-MCU versions of the Hulk or Pym-tech are relevant to understanding what’s going on in the show.

MCU Hulk has never been shown to have powers remotely equivalent to some of the comics.

As for the resizing device? I don’t think it’s any different than the ones we’ve seen Hank toss around plenty of times before.

You do raise one very good question, though.

Since Hulk’s heart is connected to the rest of him, shouldn’t his whole body grow proportionally? The Pym-tech might not work that way, but my guess is that this part is hand-wavery.