Here is a couple of pastes from other boards where people have asked me about C&C, maybe they will help you decide to give it a look. So far the two who have made the jump are loving it, and a third one said today that they are going to give it a try. Or was it two more? I'll have to go back and look at that forum/messageboard again. Yes, I hope I convert you too. I think this is a really good system when people actually try it out and see how well it actually works. Anyways, the copied posts:
C&C starts simple but does not have to stay that way if you don't want it to.
Like feats and skills are not in the "official" rules of C&C. However the rules imply you can have them. The way I implemented them was to say that any feat that is a combat maneuver, such as cleave or whirlwind, can be attempted with a roll, based on whatever stat I think is most appropriate for the conditions under which they are being attempted. Usually DEX or STR. The other feats I don't allow, except for spell mastery, I allow that as written, and the player just has to make a successful INT check for each spell they want mastered.
I added a defined skills system to my C&C game by simply saying that the skills listed in the 3E PH for the class that most closely relates to your C&C class are skills your character can have. The only thing I had to "add" was a limitation on knowledge skills, equal to your INT bonus. Just recently I realized I needed to do the same thing for crafting skills.
My players only need to keep track of what knowledge and craft skills they have. Otherwise it is covered by the 3E list. Plus the full list is available to them. Oh, I also made Spot and Listen available to all classes except the Wizard and illusionist. They have spells to make them super human in those areas.
So what I am trying to illustrate is that C&C starts relatively very simple, but the SIEGE system is versatile enough to let you add whatever you miss or want. So the game will never become more complex than you, the DM, wants it to.
Future books are going to cover adding stuff on and suggestions on how to do it, but the books will strongly stress the fact that these rules additions are solely added if the CK wants to add them. Plus these books, as I understand it, are aimed at the CK, not the players. Which further illustrates that this stuff is the CK's stuff to use or ignore, not the players.
So the whole attitude and flavor of C&C is very relaxed and simplistic and "do whatever you want".
I have been CKing for about 8 months now. I have no motivation whatsoever to go back to DMing 3E. I play it, with my wife and kids taking turns DMing, but I have no desire to DM again. My wife and kids are also getting aggravated with DMing 3E and often say, "lets handle this the way we do in C&C!"
What I find funniest is they keep insisting on sticking with 3E because of all the cool feat builds. Forgetting the obvious, that all these feat builds are available to their characters in the C&C game, with no "builds" whatsoever. They are available for them to attempt from level 1 on.
I have pointed this out to them again and again as they use feat rolls in the C&C game, but for some reason the "logic" hasn't stuck. So I think I am going to have to point out every time the "cool new feat" is gained and bragged about I'll have to point out that the "so and so C&C character has been able to attempt this since level 1."
The only cool feats that cannot be added, simply, are the metamagic feats of the wizards and clerics. My brain has been working on that and I think my flash of inspiration will arrive soon. Now C&C already gives the item creation feats at certain levels, just like in 2E. It is the other feats, like energy substitution, maximize, sudden maximize, energy admixture (my personal favorite), Lord of the Uttercold, etc... that are hard to implement. In fact, I am thinking it will be best if I add them on at specific high levels as straight class abilities.
The other idea bouncing around is to handle them just like the other feats but have them only be able to be attempted after specific levels. I like this idea better, because it is simplest, but I am not sure about power abuse.
Anyways, I have rattled on enough. I hope you have actually read all this and been convinced to give C&C a look. Or another look if you have already looked at it.
The C&C mechanic is d20, just like 3E. where it deviates is the SIEGE Engine. All your saves and skill type actions are resolved with the SIEGE engine. What does this mean? Well, hopefully I can explain it as simply and clearly as the system itself is.
First off, during character creaton the players designate 2 or 3 stats as Primes. Humans get 3, every other race gets 2. What does a Prime stat do for you? Several things. Essentially it gives you a +6 modifier to any saving throw or action taken that is based off of that stat. Plus, if the stat is high enough to give an attribute bonus, you add that to.
The other advantage to the Prime system is that even if you roll a lousy stat, being Prime will still make the character superior in everything related to that stat. At least compared to any other character that doesn't have ti as a Prime as well.
Another thing to remember about C&C, every stat has some type of save based on it. For example STR has paralyzaton and constriction saves based off of it.
Here is another key point ot understanding the SIEGE engine. There are two levels of saves, or DC's in C&C. 12 if the save/roll is based off of a Prime stat, 18 if it is not.
Modifiers: Positive modifiers (being in the PC's favor) come from class level, stat bonuses, and magic items or spells. Plus if it is Prime or not.
Negative modifiers come from the CK/DM, and their determination of difficulty. Usually, if it is a creature, you use their Hit Dice/Level. Plus any exceptional stat modifier they may have.
For example:
Wizard and fighter are going at it. The fighter is 40 feet away. The fighter is screwed if he can't get to the wizard and do a hand to hand pounding on him. So while moving towards the wizard he will shoot his bow in hopes of messing with the wizards spellcasting.
The wizard, being the smart dude that he is, realizes that a fighter is probably weak willed and casts a charm person on him. The fighter shoots an arrow at the mage and hits him for 4 points. The wizard, being smart, has his CON as a Prime, so his concentration check to keep his spell starts at a 12. His level is 5th and he even has a +1 stat bonus to his Con, for a total of +6. So his base TN is 6 (TN 12 -6=6). Now the fighter only gets to modify this Con check by the damage done, which was 4, so this adjusts the TN back up to 10. A 50/50 chance the wizard loses or keeps his spell and gets it off. He rolls an 11 and keeps the spell and casts it.
Now the fighter needs to make a save. The wizard is wrong, he is strong in will, he has alwaqys been a leader and his force of will and personality ahs led his companions through many ordeals. His Charisma is a Prime stat, and spells that attempt to control a persons will are countered by charisma.
So the fighters base TN is also 12 for his save versus charm. He is a 6th level fighter, but his charisma stat is low enough to give him a -1 stat modifier so his base TN is a 7. The level of the Wizard is 5, and he is exceptionally intelligent and has a stat bonus of two, so he increases the fighters TN up to 14.
The fighter rolls a 6 and becomes charmed. Suddenly he no longer desires to kill the wizard. He wonders why he wanted to in the first place.
End Example.
As you can see (assuming I have managed to be sensible) their are a lot of similarities to how you do things in 3E. The biggest differences are that every stat has saves attached to it, so there are no throw away stats, and that there are two TN's, determined by whether the related stat is designated a Prime or not.
Combat goes much like 3E, you have positive AC's and a Base to Hit (BtH), just like 3E. C&C is a d20 OGL product after all. Perhaps the best thing about C&C is that there are no AoO's.
In a lot of ways C&C is lower powered than 3E, then again spells are very dangerous, especially when it is versus a non-prime based save. That TN for the fighter would have been a 20 if his CHA hadn't been Prime.
There are some sites you should check out. The main one being cncplayer.net. There are a lot of house rules there, and if Grey Elfs site is linked off of there (I'm pretty sure it is) he has downloads available to explain converting monsters from 3E to C&C and I believe the older versions of D&D as well.
If after that, you are still interested check out the troll forums linked through their new board.
Also take advantage of the Trolls $10.00 sale, ALL of Gygax's books are on sale, and ALL of the C&C hardbacks, except the $95.00 special editions and a few others, are on sale for $10.00 each. Shipping is $3.50 + $1.00 for each additional book. So 3 books would be $5.50 in shipping. The modules would be cheaper at your LGS, but I strongly recommend them. Combined with the C&C rules these modules remind me so much of playing and DMing back in the OD&D/1E days it isn't funny. I believe Danger Dwarf posted he feels the same way somewhere in this thread or on these boards.
Anyways, give C&C a try. I don't play bad game systems, and I sure as heck wouldn't recommend one. The only question is will C&C fit your style and desires for a game. If simplicity with as much complexity as you want to add, and having the story/adventure being the primary focus, sounds like what you are looking for then you can make it happen with the C&C rules set.
