What is a GOOD rules light system?

[librarius_arcana]

True enough!

I guess I should have said that WOTC should have come out with a set of rules as basic as True20 for 3e initially, then added bits to flesh out the system for indiviual GM or player tastes.

As for HP in True20, I have to agree. Maybe just use the VP/WP route from Unearthed Arcana?

I truely wished you ran WotC dude

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Talking about Lejendary Adventures Philotomy said:

I'm not sure what to make of this. The PCs have their abilities (i.e. skill bundles) like chivalry, ranging, weapons, etc. They can attempt pretty much anything they like, and the GM handles it based on their abilities, etc.


Their chances are based on the level of the appropriate ability (i.e. skill) or base rating (i.e. stat), plus any modifiers. I guess I don't understand what you're getting at.


Well, there's no accounting for taste, I suppose. My experience has been different. People can judge for themselves by trying out the Quick Start.

I'd like to thank you for the link. I'd honestly forgotten how truly awful and unplayable this game is! Oh, and the Quick Start rules aren't. I defy anyone to figure this game out at first reading.

If you want a skill based percentage system there are at least three better ones out there.

 

[Torillan]

I truely wished you ran WotC dude

I do appreciate the sentiment, but I'm no businessman! Kudos to the WOTC gang for doing as well as they have!

As for my point about starting with a stripped down d20 system, does anyone else think that is what should have been done first, then publish books fleshing out more specific campaigns or genres? Would it have sold as well? For me, it was the ability to customize that drew me to True20.

I'd also like to see what WOTC and other publishers think about this 20/20 hindsight opinion.

 

[librarius_arcana]

I do appreciate the sentiment, but I'm no businessman! Kudos to the WOTC gang for doing as well as they have!

I meant that in terms of game direction, let the suits deal with the rest

As for my point about starting with a stripped down d20 system, does anyone else think that is what should have been done first, then publish books fleshing out more specific campaigns or genres? Would it have sold as well? For me, it was the ability to customize that drew me to True20.

Totally agree

 

[Dragonhelm]

In olden times many more would have just quit and gone their separate ways. At least todays environment allows discontented people to find good alternatives to keep them in the hobby. I'm sure there is still a significant percentage who just quit, but hopefully that number is significantly lower with C&C, True20, and the others being available.

I wanted to second this sentiment. All of us are different in our tastes in RPGs. Some prefer something more rules-heavy, some of us prefer something more rules-light. Some prefer archetypes, some prefer customization. And so on and so forth. This is why edition wars seem silly to me. We are all different, so our tastes in RPGs are bound to be different.

Today’s environment allows for a lot of options, which is great. This means we can all find the RPG system that fits what we want the closest. No system is perfect, but we can all house rule.

In my case, I’ve recently switched to C&C, but I’ve kept a few things from D&D that I like as well. My classes are homebrew, progressing up to 20th level. I don’t use primes, and I’ve adapted 3e’s skills (with some modifications, of course!). Is it perfect? No, of course not. But it fits my playing style, and what I’m looking for in a game. I still get use out of all my AD&D materials plus I can adapt some d20 materials as well.

 

[mcrow]

I vote for Castles & Crusades for that old school feel.

However I have been a long time D6 fan, nothing does Sci-Fi as well as d6 (IMO)
It can also do any other type of game very well, but it shines in Sci-Fi. The new D6 Powers book rocks to from what I hear.

 

[BluSponge]

Oh, and the Quick Start rules aren't. I defy anyone to figure this game out at first reading.

Not to threadjack, but as the writer of the LA Quick Start, I'm curious as to how they aren't quick, or easy to understand. PM me if you'd prefer.

Tom

 

[Rothe]

Originally Posted by Philotomy Jurament
I'm not sure what to make of this. The PCs have their abilities (i.e. skill bundles) like chivalry, ranging, weapons, etc. They can attempt pretty much anything they like, and the GM handles it based on their abilities, etc.


Their chances are based on the level of the appropriate ability (i.e. skill) or base rating (i.e. stat), plus any modifiers. I guess I don't understand what you're getting at.


Well, there's no accounting for taste, I suppose. My experience has been different. People can judge for themselves by trying out the Quick Start.

WOW! Checked it out. Am I the only one to think that LA bears many striking similarities to The Fantasy Trip? Three base stats named different, but that can correlate to Strength (Body), Dexterity (Speed) and Intelligence (Mind) but on a % scale instead of 3D6? Armor reduces damage and a "spell point" system? Also skill bundles that look more like the TFT skill approach as opposed to a Traveller or BRP skill approach, especially with how they interact with abilities. When did Mr. Gygax change his mind? IIRC he once unleased scorn upon spell point systems, skills, and armor reducing damage. I'd be interested in reading about his reasoning and the evolution of his ideas on game mechanics from class, armor class, fire-and-forget spells to LA abilitiy based chances of success, skill bundles, armor reducing damage, and spell points.

LA has also seems to have many different names for what have become rather standard game concepts, Merits instead of Experience Points for example. The shear number of different namings makes me think there was some motivation based on copyright, trademark and product identity concerns, or maybe it was something contractual.

Sorry to go OT here, just amazed to see so many fundamental rethinkings and resurrections of previous game mechanical concepts from decades ago in a modern product. Of course I could be completely mis-reading the quick start mechanics.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

WOW! Checked it out. Am I the only one to think that LA bears many striking similarities to The Fantasy Trip?

I've never played The Fantasy Trip, so I can't comment on that.

Also skill bundles that look more like the TFT skill approach as opposed to a Traveller or BRP skill approach, especially with how they interact with abilities.

The skill bundles are one of the things I really like about LA. I much prefer having five or six broad skill bundles instead of dozens of narrow and specific skills. Having an ability like Chivalry gives you everything such a character should have: riding, heraldry, diplomacy, rules of courtly behavior, leadership, maybe some knowledge of local politics, et cetera. And you don't have to have all that specifically defined (which means you aren't "missing" a skill that really makes sense for your character concept -- like a squire or knight who didn't have enough skill points to buy knowledge[heraldry], or whatever). I like the flexibility and freedom having broad skill bundles offers.

I also like that you can have "ordered" or "unordered" PCs (avatars, in LA-terms); it gives a nod to the concept of archetypes, but you can ignore archetypes and design whatever character you envision, if you prefer.

One other thing that is really cool is how LA avatars start off being very potent. I'd say a beginning LA avatar is roughly equivalent to a D&D PC of about 5th level or so, as far as how powerful the character feels. So you start in the "sweet spot," IMO. It's also pretty cool that the entire range of activations (spells) are available from the start, too, although the more potent activations take longer to cast, et cetera.

When did Mr. Gygax change his mind? IIRC he once unleased scorn upon spell point systems, skills, and armor reducing damage. I'd be interested in reading about his reasoning and the evolution of his ideas on game mechanics from class, armor class, fire-and-forget spells to LA abilitiy based chances of success, skill bundles, armor reducing damage, and spell points.

Well, he developed LA some time after he worked on Dangerous Journeys. You might check out his Q&A threads on Dragonsfoot, or ask him about it on the Lejendary Adventure forums. Or here, if you prefer.

Not to threadjack, but as the writer of the LA Quick Start, I'm curious as to how they aren't quick, or easy to understand.

Personally, I didn't have any problem understanding the LA Quick Start. In fact, the quick start encouraged me to buy LA; I picked up the Lejendary Essentials boxed set from Troll Lords at the same time I ordered C&C, and my group has enjoyed both games a lot. I'm running our main campaign in C&C, but I've been running the LA game almost as frequently. We've been having a blast with both systems.

 

[Treebore]

I bought LA: Essentials during the Trolls $10.00 sale. Sounds like those skill bundles will work better for C&C than the 3E skills, which others have told me before, such as G.D. I am also sure Gary went out of his way to make sure suit happy suits at WOTC would leave him alone, so I'll forgive him for renaming stuff, especially since my vocabulary is good enough to understand the word relationships.

I figured if nothing else it would be cool to see what the main creator of this hobby thinks is a good game system today. Since he created it I will learn that much. Besides, when you take the time to figure out the logic of the mechanics and all the various associations, you learn a lot about the mind behind it. Since I have yet to get to talk to Gary on a personal level I figure its the next best thing.