What is a "Narrative Mechanic"?

[MichaelSomething]

What about the OG narrative mechanic, gold for exp?

 

[Fenris-77]

What about the OG narrative mechanic, gold for exp?

Yeah, so I tend to distinguish between in-game and end-game mechanics. Gold for XP is, at its base, very much narrtive in some ways, but it doesn't impact play at the table the same way that say, Fate points do.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Inspiration is a mechanic in the game, I meant, BIFTs never were: those are just RP suggestions. The mechanic is just DMte ognition of good roleplaying .

Well, if the rules are followed as originally presented (though I realize many folks didn’t bother), the BIFTs are a trigger for gaining Inspiration. And they’re in world elements… I don’t know if that makes them specifically a “game mechanic” but they certainly have mechanical implications.

I mean, I don’t think it’s the best implementation. I’d have preferred for BIFTs to be even more integrated into the rules in some way. The implications from the playtest that they’ll be absent and now inspiration will be granted on a Crit just seems very blah to me.

It's a light narrative mechanic, sure.

What makes it “light” in your eyes? I mean, an instance of Advantage used in the right situation can have a huge impact on the game.

Yeah, so I tend to distinguish between in-game and end-game mechanics. Gold for XP is, at its base, very much narrtive in some ways, but it doesn't impact play at the table the same way that say, Fate points do.

I don’t know if I agree with you on that one. The XP system is an important play element. It determines what play is about. It gives the players a goal and determines how they’ll be rewarded.

Because it’s not triggered or spent by the player, it seems less flashy, or perhaps less severe, but it’s more persistent. More foundational.

 

[Reynard]

the advantage system allows players (and DM) to describe tactical actions without worrying about specific bonuses or ‘rules’, instead they can just have characters Do and the world responds accordingly.

That's not true. Advantage or disadvantage is exactly like bonuses and penalties in previous editions. It is the result of specific tactical choices made by characters and the result of environmental effects. There is no mechanism in 5E for getting advantage for describing things. You get advantage on melee attacks against a prone opponent within reach. That's just a rule.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, if the rules are followed as originally presented (though I realize many folks didn’t bother), the BIFTs are a trigger for gaining Inspiration. And they’re in world elements… I don’t know if that makes them specifically a “game mechanic” but they certainly have mechanical implications.

I mean, I don’t think it’s the best implementation. I’d have preferred for BIFTs to be even more integrated into the rules in some way. The implications from the playtest that they’ll be absent and now inspiration will be granted on a Crit just seems very blah to me.

BIFTs were always framed as suggestions, the actual rule is pretty loose and open to DM interpretation. Theybstoppwd including BIFTs in new books as of Fizban's, but that doesn't change the rule as such: a DM can reward inspiration for good roleplaying.

What makes it “light” in your eyes? I mean, an instance of Advantage used in the right situation can have a huge impact on the game.

Light insofar as people report ignoring the mechanics entirely and still playing 5E for years. Not engaging with narrative mechanics in some games would render them unplayable, indeed nonsensical.

 

[Fenris-77]

I don’t know if I agree with you on that one. The XP system is an important play element. It determines what play is about. It gives the players a goal and determines how they’ll be rewarded.

Because it’s not triggered or spent by the player, it seems less flashy, or perhaps less severe, but it’s more persistent. More foundational.

Well, I guess I'll disagree in turn. That economy is entirely controlled by the DM. I don't think it's accurate to say that it's either triggered or spent by the player. Sure, the players kill stuff and collect treasure but they have no say in the XP that gets doled out in return (at all).

 

[Neonchameleon]

A narrative mechanic is a means for both the players and GM to add new information to a scene in order to influence ongoing roleplay.

in games like DnD the mechanic is baked in at character creation (eg I have the skill to pick locks) but the DM decides if there is lock to open. Whereas in games like Fate the mechanic allows the player to declare that there is a door

I'd have said that a more accurate comparison to Fate is that in Fate the player can declare there is a door if they spend a Fate point and have an appropriate aspect whereas in D&D the player can declare there is a door if they spend a spell slot and have the Passwall spell prepared.

 

[Reynard]

Well, I guess I'll disagree in turn. That economy is entirely controlled by the DM. I don't think it's accurate to say that it's either triggered or spent by the player. Sure, the players kill stuff and collect treasure but they have no say in the XP that gets doled out in return (at all).

In a player driven game, of course they do. Whether that is XP for gold or for kills or some other metric, if the players decide what risks are worth what rewards, they are the ones who decide how much XP they (potentially) get.

 

[aramis erak]

In your own words, not using jargon or other bespoke terminology. What, to you, qualifies as a "narrative mechanic"?

I'll have to use two jargon terms, so I'll start by defining them...
Game State aka Mechanical State: all the phrase and numerical defined portions of the game, including, if used, the battlemaps and landholding maps. Essentially if the game mechanics call for it to be represented with writing or tokens, it's mechanical state.
Story State - the rest of the situation - those things that don't require mechanical notation, and those things whose presence is more than the basic mechanical notations; The parts that you can't get from watching a timelapse of the maps and assorted record sheets, assumign 100% fidelity.
A narrative mechanic, to me, is something that allows for direct significant modification of the story state via a simple mechanical change and without needing a prior story state justification

Essentially, if it introduces things that don't have prior story justification, and don't have a mechanical state justification, it's a narrative mechanic.

 

[Fenris-77]

In a player driven game, of course they do. Whether that is XP for gold or for kills or some other metric, if the players decide what risks are worth what rewards, they are the ones who decide how much XP they (potentially) get.

Sure, but they have no actual control over the mechanic. That matters.