What is a Paladin?

[italianranma]

What, me saying they aren't ninjas wasn't enough?

But wouldn't that make them pirates?

That article is amazing: I'm going to read the rest of his stuff right now! Thanks for that, seriously.

 

[Nightfall]

Nah it would make them near pirates.

 

[Jhaelen]

Most people replied with a righteous warrior who is chosen by a deity, or champions the faith. I guess the next question then is how is a righteous warrior defined? What makes someone ‘good’ versus ‘evil’? These concepts are very hard to define but everyone has a general sense about what is good and evil. We can call that sense morality, and probably agree that something that conforms to our standards of acceptable behavior is morally good, and something in odds with it is morally wrong or evil. Now I believe that morality is a learned concept, and so it defers depending on your own experiences. Do you agree with this, or do you believe that there is one set moral code that all people abide by?
If you can accept that moral codes are different depending on cultures and environments, then is it different for paladins?

Unfortunately that line of thinking will get you nowhere.
The D&D Paladin's codex relies on the alignment system. In 'standard' D&D there is no moral ambiguity because the alignment system makes it measurable. If a Paladin uses his ability to 'Detect Evil' it is clearly defined what registers as evil (and to which degree) and what doesn't.

In D&D it's easy to define who's good and who's evil: Just have a look at their alignment!

If you are interested in a pretty good discussion of paladin ethics, check out this thread on the WotC boards: Clear answers for Paladins Please, be advised though, that the thread's title is a bit misleading - there's no consensus about anything at all!

 

[isoChron]

A Paladin is a beacon of light in a world of darkness and despair.
He brings hope and shows through his whole way of living and serving how to be a good person, especially for the common folk. He also has no fear to blame the nobles of their evil doings. He isn't interested in getting rich or in reigning people but he wants to serve the one Good (god) with all his abilities. He hates corruption, lies and deception.
He isn't necesarrily a melee warrior but it serves him to hold up to the forces of evil.
I think that certain spells are despised by paladins. Such as control the free mind of a being (Charm/Dominate), clearly all spells with the evil descriptor but also Inflict Wounds and similar uses of negative energy or the forces of unlife.

 

[diaglo]

This is a Paladin:

quoted for all kinds of troof

 

[S'mon]

Roland from Song of Roland. Paladin is a French concept, so Arthurian Paladins are actually French or other continental imports, eg Lancelot, Percival, & I think Galahad.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Most people replied with a righteous warrior who is chosen by a deity, or champions the faith. I guess the next question then is how is a righteous warrior defined? What makes someone ‘good’ versus ‘evil’? These concepts are very hard to define but everyone has a general sense about what is good and evil. We can call that sense morality, and probably agree that something that conforms to our standards of acceptable behavior is morally good, and something in odds with it is morally wrong or evil. Now I believe that morality is a learned concept, and so it defers depending on your own experiences. Do you agree with this, or do you believe that there is one set moral code that all people abide by?

There is not one set moral code for all people. There are themes common to most societies, but there is a lot of places where one society feels different from another and in between there is a ton of grey.

If you can accept that moral codes are different depending on cultures and environments, then is it different for paladins?

No. The core belief is what defines the paladin. That is shaped by the society the paladin come from.

Now conceder this morally ambiguous question: Assume that there is a valley with enough resources to support one culture. A village of humans lives there, and a tribe of orcs wants to move in. This valley can only support one, so naturally there is war. The orcs are fighting for survival. Does a human paladin fight the orcs? Would it make a difference if instead of orcs the tribe was of humans?

It depends upon the beliefs of the paladin.
Is the paladin the champion of the village? If yes, then he fights.
Is he a champion of life - be it human or otherwise? If yes, then he tries to find an alternative solution, or just refuses to fight.

Of course the simple solution is for the paladin to cut down both sides until there are few enought that the valley can support both the humans and the orcs.

 

[tzor]

“What is a paladin?” The question seems exceptionally innocent but is in fact actually very deep. It reflects design concepts that come from the earliest editions, many of which are no longer reflected in modern d20 class design. It is a subject that I am sure is as controversial now as it was then. So with that said everything that follows is in my not always humble opinion. (Feel free to disagree with me, but be prepared to feel the wrath of my holy avenger!)

A paladin is a special fighter, lawfully good in his or her alignment, and gifted with impressive and most nifty attributes. Rare among mortals (unless you cheated on the dice) they are given powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. He is the very model of the ideal knight; brave, honest and true. While not rescuing damsels in distress they often cure the sick, heal the injured, uphold the law, and make witty remarks. So special is the power of the paladin that only the mightiest of all the creatures (human) of the world may possess it. He is the source of all legends of all that is good, holy, right and true. This is indeed a paladin.

(Oh you mean he is a human only class – thus no multi-class – fighter who has a whole lot of restrictions and gets cleric spells at high level? As opposed to a ranger who was a fighter who eventually got wizard/druid spells? Yes.)

The paladin is the exceptionally skilled lawful good fighter who gets a horse and cleric spells and a couple of really spiff weapons just for his personal use! That is the origin of the D&D paladin. The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[papastebu]

Do you agree with this, or do you believe that there is one set moral code that all people abide by?

I agree that morality is mainly learned, but I also believe that there is alot more to the concept of race memory than is credited. Somewhere in my genetics is a predilection for being afraid of spiders, which has been reinforced by my own experiences. I don't by any means, however, think that all people abide by the same moral code. This is evidenced by terrorists who have convinced themselves that it is right and good to kill innocents, as well as themselves, in the name of all they hold sacred.

If you can accept that moral codes are different depending on cultures and environments, then is it different for paladins?

I can see that a being that espouses concepts that many would consider evil, would have servants and choose champions from among them who espouse those beliefs, as well. The blackguard or anti-paladin is something to look at when considering this notion. The "paladin" in this case is simply taking the fight to the streets, as he was chosen to do, and with the tenets of his faith and the mores of his culture in tow. The paladin that we have been discussing is simply doing the same thing, with a diametrically-opposed viewpoint. So the answer to this question, as far as I can tell, is that paladins are different in that they are a more intense, much more narrowly-defined version of what I would call the "base ruleset" for the culture in which they developed. Any champion for any deity must uphold the deity's concepts and the morality of his culture, or risk undermining--perhaps even destroying--everything he stands for. Lawful as defined by society. Good as defined by moral conviction.

Now conceder this morally ambiguous question: Assume that there is a valley with enough resources to support one culture. A village of humans lives there, and a tribe of orcs wants to move in. This valley can only support one, so naturally there is war. The orcs are fighting for survival. Does a human paladin fight the orcs? Would it make a difference if instead of orcs the tribe was of humans?

Yes, the human paladin must fight the orcs, as he must fight anyone who threatens his very way of life. If the attackers were humans, instead, I don't think that it would make a great deal of difference, except that the paladin might experience more regret than when killin' orcs. The only way I could see this not being the case would be if the paladin serves a god who wishes for the two peoples--orcs and humans, or otherwise--to coexist peacefully for some reason. If the paladin fought this supposed enemy, then he would be acting directly against the wishes of the one he serves. BAD PALADIN! NO BISCUIT!

Papastebu, thanks for your input.

You are most welcome.

As far as paladins in exalted, are you talking about the exalted in general? There’s no paladin class that I know of in there.

They are the chosen ones. The Undying Sun chose the Solars, Luna chose the Lunars, etc. I know the abilities they have don't necessarily represent any of the "classic" stuff very well, but they are in service to higher powers and overarching concepts, and are given powers with which to perform such. You might call them "clerics and paladins" as some are ministers and some are warriors, but the concept is there.

As far as Ghandi, Mother Theresa, and Martin Luther King being paladins, I’m not sold on that because they were all pacifists.

I agree that fighting is implied, but I was trying to think of modern-day examples in the real world. I really feel that those three exemplify the concepts of fighting against something that is anathema. Ghandi fought by not fighting. He put himself in harm's way with nearly every breath he took, and did so out of strong moral conviction, and within the parameters of law. Mother Theresa was the same. She found hunger and disease abhorrent, and fought them to her dying day, because she was called to do so. Dr. King was of the same cut as the other two. He lived as a black man in a post-slavery state. Did you know that slavery was not completely abolished in the United States until the early sixties? It was finally stricken from lawbooks and such persecution outlawed largely due to the efforts of Dr. King. All three of these people were extremely proactive in their causes, and new leaders and followers alike take their cues from those examples. There are many other types of battle than actual, physical, combat.

I’ve seen a lot of discussion on this in these forums: Everyone is happy with a paladin fighting against demons, and undead and the like, but what about bandits? What about mind controlled guards? What about people who are misguided and in the paladin’s way? I know these kinds of issues cause a lot of heartache for some people. Discussions get bogged down in the what-if’s all the time, but it’s important when we really define paladin to know these answers.

Are simple bandits something that a deity would send his chosen to deal with? If they are a part of the situation, and the deity wants them dealt with or not, he will let the paladin know. This is true of any situation in the paladin's life. Aside from that, however, the paladin has to make his own choices about what to do. His deity might not be omniscient, but would more than likely be watching the one he chose to serve him in this way. The paladin has a duty and a code that guide him. I haven't ever heard of a paladin being an indescriminate killer, even if in service to an evil god. Sometimes fighting isn't necessary, or would even detract from the paladin's efficacy. In these cases the paladin has to find alternative solutions.

Sorry so long-winded. Hope I helped.

--Steve

 

[Mark CMG]

What is a Paladin?


I want more of a general discussion of what a paladin is, and then I’ll pick out what aspects of that I want for my game.

Simply put, a fighter attached to a religious order who has taken a vow to adhere to a specific moral code.