What is a setting book? [RANT]

[mroberon1972]

I have noticed a trend that ticks me off beyond all hope of being reasonable:
Crunch books being passed off as a setting book...

In the old days, a setting book contained pages and pages of places and people, with histories and items of interest taking up nearly the rest of the book. A small portion (25% or less) would be used for any special rules needed for the setting...

Now, I'm seeing books of 300 pages that only have 60 pages of setting material. 60 PAGES! The rest of these new books contains classes, rules, specialized magic systems... In a few cases, pure crunch...

That ain't a setting, it's a gathering of useful rules to MAKE a setting with...

At this point, I have to say that I can't blame those publishers who have followed this trend. Most just the what sells and fill the void.

But it ain't a setting book...

A setting book should give me the material I need to evoke the flavor of the setting, not mitigate every possible class or rule. That's the function of suppliments...

Or, am I just not keeping with the times?

 

[Crothian]

It needs to do both. The rules are gathered if different rules are needed to run that particuliar setting. The "crunch" if desribed right can really enhance the world while at the same time providing key mechanics. For instance the Heroes of High Favor by Bad Axe Games. While these are not setting books per say they do provide a great example on who feats and prestige classes can have great describtions enhancing them.

 

[Ron]

I agree with the rant. It appears to me that most setting books try to appeal a wider audience by introducing new rules that, according to the authors, can be used in a different campaign. It is understandable, check the reviews of setting books that do not include many new rules, such as the The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. The book, despite being a good description of the Flanaess, received from a few critics a lot of heavy bashing for not including new rules (except for a complete list of divine beings and their domains). Although I agree that a few new Prestige Classes could help, I would hate to have more than something like half-dozen pages dedicated to that.

It appears that the public has a pro-crunch mentality. If this is true, publishers are right in dedicate a good portion of their campaign settings for rules. Hopefully, the public will became bored with this and creativity will be more important than crunch, which I believe it is the easiest aspect of the game.

 

[mroberon1972]

It needs to do both. The rules are gathered if different rules are needed to run that particuliar setting. The "crunch" if desribed right can really enhance the world while at the same time providing key mechanics. For instance the Heroes of High Favor by Bad Axe Games. While these are not setting books per say they do provide a great example on who feats and prestige classes can have great describtions enhancing them.

There are 'setting' books out there without even having some basic MAPS of the setting...

 

[Crothian]

There are 'setting' books out there without even having some basic MAPS of the setting...

And there are setting out there with great maps. If you want to talk about specific setting that fine, but I don't think we should talk about them in these general terms.

 

[Bagpuss]

Yeah name, names so folks that love or hate the books can comment. And those that haven't got them can know what to look out for or avoid.

For example the Scarred Lands Campaign Setting Ghelspad has 250 pages, of which all but the appendix (20 pages on Pestige Classes) is fluff, you have a great continent map, and several cities mapped (although it could have done, with a few more it I don't see where they would have cut something to fit it). IMHO its a top class Setting Book. Of course with that much fluff you need 3 or four other books to get the crunch to go with the setting.

 

[Glak]

Yeah I agree, fluff is awesome. Also awesome is stuff that helps you become a better DM. For example the 2e book the Complete Book of Villains. It was 100% tips and techniques with excellent examples. I do like a setting book to include some rules, but mostly tweaks or restrictions, in the same vein as Dark Sun. Changing the standard options gives a setting flavor. Throwing in 20 flavorless PrCs or random feats does nothing for me

 

[JBowtie]

Well, I notice there are really two kinds of campaign settings.

1) Settings that embrace the basic assumptions built into the design of D&D. These settings need very little in the way of extra rules because part of the feel is already built in. Scarred Lands, Forgotten Realms, and Kalamar are all good examples of this.

2) Settings that challenge or change these core assumptions. In order to successfully support the feel of the setting, the rules need to be extensively redesigned and rebalanced. Examples of the second kind include Midnight, Rokugan, and the Diamond Throne (Arcana Unearthed).

Midnight, for example, includes a lot of crunch because the core rule assumptions about the availability and ease-of-use of magic permeate the design and need new mechanics to really get the feel across.

Arcanca Unearthed was a massive redesign because challenging core rule assumptions about the way magic works, the availability of certain kinds of spells, and alignment really required a massive re-engineering of the rules.

Rokugan, you'll notice also includes a ton of rules. But I have to say that every single rule in the core Rokugan book supports the play style and setting feel in a way you could never replicate without such massive changes.

The second group is extremely flavourful, with far more differences between them than those in the first group. The reason? They challenge the deeper assumptions of the design. Even if a designer does not do so effectively or deliberately, I think most of them actually have that as their underlying motivation.

See, the reason I think DMs buy books of crunch instead of books of fluff is that they can get all the fluff they want by drawing upon the (nowadays mainstream) fantasy books and movies they already own. So many fantasy authors draw upon the same archetypes and stories and background that D&D was fashioned from that it's really, really easy to pick up whatever atmosphere you want through pure fluff; just use the maps/cities from your favourite fantasy novels and you're ready to go.

The harder thing, and the reason so many people buy the crunchier books, is to tweak the underlying rule sets so you can better get the feel you want when people create PCs and NPCs.

 

[mroberon1972]

And there are setting out there with great maps. If you want to talk about specific setting that fine, but I don't think we should talk about them in these general terms.

Nuh-uh... As a publisher, I'm not really allowed to name names or pick fights...

I'm just venting bile in general on the subject...

On the other hand, I just bought the 2nd printing of Mutants and Masterminds. It's crunch-riffic! I'm gonna go veg with it for a little while before putting the finishing touches on Rangers & Druids and The Complete Fools Catalog... Busy Busy!

 

[Crothian]

Nuh-uh... As a publisher, I'm not really allowed to name names or pick fights...!

Of course your allowed. It might be seen as a bad idea, but you can still do it