D&D (2024) What is a warlock/sorcerer without a starting patron/origin?

[Sir Brennen]

If classes which currently start with their subclass at first level, such as warlocks, wizards and sorcerers, have their subclass choice moved to third, what would theses classes even look like their first couple of levels?

Wizards are pretty easy, as one who hasn’t specialized yet is still a recognizable student of the arcane arts.

But what about a warlock? If the idea is to remove the “blocker” of extra choices like cleric domains from initial character creation, the. What does that mean for selecting a patron? One could argue a warlock’s patron is a more mechanically important decision than a cleric’s deity, since their domain subclass choice can be selected independently of their deity, since one deity can have multiple domains. But choice of a patron dictates a warlock’s powers directly, closely followed by Pact selection.

So, what even is a warlock without a patron yet?

Same for a sorcerer. Their subclass is literally called “sorcerous origin”. What exactly is such a character that hasn’t selected their origin until third level?

Thoughts on how WotC might approach this issue if they stick to starting all subclasses starting at third level?

 

[mellored]

Your connection to your power grows deeper over time.

Level 1: invocations
Level 2: pact magic
Level 3: pact boon

 

[Sir Brennen]

Your connection to your power grows deeper over time.

Yeah, but what power? Do you still have to choose a patron or origin at first level? If so, then that defeats the purpose of pushing all subclasses to third level to simplify creating a new character.

 

[mellored]

No more than a cleric needs to chose their god at first level.

 

[Davies]

So, what even is a warlock without a patron yet?

Someone who knows a few neat tricks.

 

[Yaarel]

The UA Cleric has the Channel Divinity feature at level 1.

If the Cleric is a distinctive character concept, then the character can gain a different Channel Divinity to actualize this concept at level.

In other words, The Channel Divinity at level 1 can foreshadow the flavor of the subclass choice at level 3.

In the UA, the Life Cleric is the only example of a subclass. Appropriately enough, the Divine Spark Channel Divinity that can heal or deal luminous radiant damage foreshadows the later Life domain.

Hypothetically, a Death domain at level 3 might have Channel Divinity that inflicts necrotic damage at level 1 to foreshadow it.

And so on for other level 1 Channel Divinity selections to herald the choice of the level 3 subclass.



I think it is ok for the player to choose one Channel Divinity at level 1 and an unrelated subclass at level 3. But sometimes the consistency matters for the character concept. For example, a child might be fated from birth to pursue to a divine calling. In this case, I need a way to express the character concept at level 1. Channel Divinity lets me do this.

 

[Yaarel]

The UA Cleric chooses a holy symbol at level 1 as well as a Channel Divinity. There is some longterm commitment and expression already.

Similarly, the UA Warlock can choose a patron at level 1 as well as a mechanic to express this choice. Currently in the 2014 Players Handbook, the level pact powers include: Fey Presence, Dark Ones Blessing, or Awakened Mind. The UA Warlock can be the same things, perhaps repackaged in a new format.

The level 3 Pact Boons will probably see much redevelopment as a subclass mechanic. So instead of a Pact of the Blade, it will be the Hexblade subclass. (Or Feyblade, or so on.)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I also see no problem to only find out what your bloodline is at level 3.
Level 1 and 2 may be: oh I have this power now... where does it come from...
The sorcerer can easily start with sorcery points then.

For the warlock it is easier: chose a patron at level 1. Gain a minor benefit (in form of an invocation?)
Then chose your pact and gain everything you really want.

Or start with the pact at level 1. And only later you gain the benefits of the patron, when you have proven yourself a bit.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

The sorcerer is an innate spellcaster whose particular source of innate arcane power does not distinctly express itself until level 3. I really have no problem with that. I might prefer it in fact, as it makes it feel less obligatory to work the lineage into your first attempt at a backstory.

Warlock is more problematic. But I kind of would like to see the patron divorced from the subclass. I currently am DMing for a Hexblade player who was hesitant about the subclass until I suggested that she could have some other patron and just have that patronage take the form of Hexblade features rather than swearing her soul to the service of a magic weapon. I do appreciate how evocative some of the subclasses are of the patron, and so something would definitely be lost in more of a mix and match set-up but something would also be gained.

 

[kigmatzomat]

But I kind of would like to see the patron divorced from the subclass. I currently am DMing for a Hexblade player who was hesitant about the subclass until I suggested that she could have some other patron and just have that patronage take the form of Hexblade features rather than swearing her soul to the service of a magic weapon. I do appreciate how evocative some of the subclasses are of the patron, and so something would definitely be lost in more of a mix and match set-up but something would also be gained.

I think this would work in general. The powers granted by Archfey, hexblade, undying, Fiend, great Old Ones and even the fathomless seem like they would be more or less universally applicable. I can see almost any patron granting mind-affecting/mind-shielding, melee/luck powers, semi-immortality, resistance/luck, telepathy/mind-control or sea powers.

I could even see patrons giving out a phylactery with Genie's powers but doing so would mean Genie loses almost all unique flavor.

The exception is Celestial's powers. While applicable to many, Radiance & healing seems off for evil/darkness patrons.