What is considered a Hit?

[Flipguarder]

Your honor: Yes, my client killed the man with a sword, but he cant be charged with murder , because he never hit him. All he did was hold a sword directly out in front of him and spin around continuously. He then approached the hapless accidental victim and unfortunately the centrifugal force of the spinning lodged the sword in his neck.

Hence my mentioning of legalese making sense here...

 

[DracoSuave]

Hence my mentioning of legalese making sense here...

"Your honour, I must contest. Surely, you are not trying to suggest my client committed solicitation?"
"It is clear that your client not only has committed solicitation, but he describes himself as a solicitor, and he even advertises as a solicitor in the phone book.'
'He's a -LAWYER.-'
'Point being?'
'Even under the law, the law recognizes a solicitor in the sense of a lawyer to be completely different than a solicitor in the sense of a prostitute. And for -that- matter, different -again- than a solicitor in the sense of a door-to-door salesman.'
'Do you mean to tell the court that the word might have different meanings based on context?'
"Indeed.'
'Oh. Well that should be obvious in hindsight.'

 

[Hypersmurf]

Your honor: Yes, my client killed the man with a sword, but he cant be charged with murder , because he never hit him. All he did was hold a sword directly out in front of him and spin around continuously. He then approached the hapless accidental victim and unfortunately the centrifugal force of the spinning lodged the sword in his neck.

Hence my mentioning of legalese making sense here...

[shrug] There's a difference between game mechanics, and cinematic description of the events that occur in the game world.

Cinematic description: Tordek slams his warhammer into the orc's breastplate.

Mechanical description: A Hit that deals damage.
Mechanical description: A Miss that deals damage.
Mechanical description: A Miss that deals no damage.
Mechanical description: Dealing damage through something other than a Hit or a Miss.
Mechanical description: No attack roll, but an explanation for the Combat Advantage the flanking rogue gains.

So while in describing the event, a bystander would say "He hit the orc with a hammer", mechanically, that doesn't require a Hit at all.

-Hyp.

 

[Flipguarder]

its not anything cinematic, it's semantic. I dare you to think of a way to hurt a man with a baseball bat, but without hitting him.

 

[keterys]

Swing a bat at a man and _don't hit_, make him stumble back to avoid being hit, spraining his ankle, throwing out his back, hitting himself with his own weapon, pinching himself with his armor, tiring himself out from the exertion of dodging, etc, etc.

 

[Hypersmurf]

its not anything cinematic, it's semantic. I dare you to think of a way to hurt a man with a baseball bat, but without hitting him.

I'm saying that "hitting a man with a baseball bat" might be a mechanical Hit, a mechanical Miss, a mechanical Effect, or even something else.

A hit doesn't require a Hit.

Swing a bat at a man and _don't hit_, make him stumble back to avoid being hit, spraining his ankle, throwing out his back, hitting himself with his own weapon, pinching himself with his armor, tiring himself out from the exertion of dodging, etc, etc.

Any of which I'd accept as the cinematic description of a Hit, BTW

There's also "I'll give you this lovely baseball bat, if you'll punch that man in the face for me", but that's possibly starting to get a little abstract

-Hyp.

 

[Mad Hamish]

its not anything cinematic, it's semantic. I dare you to think of a way to hurt a man with a baseball bat, but without hitting him.

Shoot him, then grab his baseball bat.

 

[ColdHeart]

Sorry Mad Hamish, you are hitting him with a bullet.

Try poison, nerve gas or other "non-direct" way of killing him

As for the point of the OP. Hit: is defines b D&D 4E rules as "Making an attack roll and getting equal to or higher than the defense stat you are aiming at". If a power in D&D 4E says "this triggers on a Hit, do that on a Hit, The Other appears on a Hit" is is refering to the Hit definition of D&D 4E.

Any use of other definitions of Hit is rules lawyering and rules bending at their best ;-)

But this is all relating to how rules and powers interact. Description is an entirely different thing.

 

[Nytmare]

Sorry Mad Hamish, you are hitting him with a bullet.

Eez a joke! Eez to laugh!

 

[Garthanos]

Swing a bat at a man and _don't hit_, make him stumble back to avoid being hit, spraining his ankle, throwing out his back, hitting himself with his own weapon, pinching himself with his armor, tiring himself out from the exertion of dodging, etc, etc.

The abstraction some people dont often get is all those descriptions are perfectly valid representations of either "hitting" (game term) with the bat or "missing" (game term) and still doing damage.