What is considered ok for paladins in your game?

[King_Stannis]

i believe gary (gygax) himself said (on these boards) that a paladin was justified in executing a prisoner not of his faith.

by view of paladins changed from that day on....

 

[Gargoyle]

i believe gary (gygax) himself said (on these boards) that a paladin was justified in executing a prisoner not of his faith.

by view of paladins changed from that day on....

If we're lucky, maybe the good Col_Pladoh will verify/clarify/deny that, and tell us how he voted.

 

[EOL]

i believe gary (gygax) himself said (on these boards) that a paladin was justified in executing a prisoner not of his faith.

by view of paladins changed from that day on....

I think that would depend a great deal on the laws of the land. If there was any sort of non-evil lawful ruling organization the peron could be turned over to I would not allow that, and even if that was not the case it would strongly depend on the paladin's order. Helm probably, Illamater, probably not.

 

[King_Stannis]

I think that would depend a great deal on the laws of the land. If there was any sort of non-evil lawful ruling organization the peron could be turned over to I would not allow that, and even if that was not the case it would strongly depend on the paladin's order. Helm probably, Illamater, probably not.

if i recall, gary put no stipulations on it. i think his view was that it is perfectly fine to be LG but fanatical - even to the point of bloodshed.

 

[Squire James]

I don't like to put blanket limits on what Paladins can or can't do. For instance, if killing helpless opponents is forbidden, how can a Paladin ever kill a Troll? 90% of the time, the troll becomes helpless and the only way to kill him is coup de grace with fire. Yet the Troll will undoubtedly do more evil if it's allowed to get up and kill you!

In others words, take it on a case-by-case basis, and make it pretty clear to the player when an action they are contemplating is a chaotic or evil act. I usually don't do things to induce fallen paladins... that's one element I don't like exploring too much. If a paladin falls in my campaign, it is because of willfully performing a chaotic or evil act, not because he was fooled into it.

 

[Claude Raines]

I'm of the idea that good does not equal stupid. I can see most of these being used in some situations. I think most of us would allow the disguise skill. Sneak attacks just mean that you are able to strike precisely when the oppenent is vulnerable. Taking advantage of vulnerabilities isn't necessarily evil. Also, an evil kingdom might have a law that says you must kill all deformed children. I can't see a paladin obeying that law. Paladins must only uphold laws that aren't directly evil (as defined by their faith). I also say paladins can feint, since any paladin with good combat skills must be willing to use them. As far as I know, feinting has never been considered part of dirty fighting.

In fact, the only one that I would really constrain in almost every situation is the attacking of helpless individuals, and even then I can think of good reasons to do so. Why shouldn't a paladin slay a demon that has been rendered helpless so the evil fiend is sent back to the abyss before it can break free?

 

[EOL]

if i recall, gary put no stipulations on it. i think his view was that it is perfectly fine to be LG but fanatical - even to the point of bloodshed.

I guess it really depends on your definition of good, which is something that's been debated by far greater minds than mine for many years. I guess I just have to much of a judeo-christian ethic, but I can certainly see Gary's point. If you were to look at it from a strictly utilitarian point of view the Malthusian method of allowing 10 people to starve rather than feeding them and allowing them to each have five kids who you can't feed is "good". Because you're killing 10 to save 50, but I can't imagine letting a paladin do that sort of thing.

 

[King_Stannis]

...Also, an evil kingdom might have a law that says you must kill all deformed children. I can't see a paladin obeying that law. Paladins must only uphold laws that aren't directly evil (as defined by their faith)...

but what if the paladin's FAITH says that all deformed children are to be killed (for mercy's sake)? nazi germany euthanized mentally ill people under the guise that it was humane. many well meaning germans, not even nazi's, believed it was humane. so morals can be rationalized for behavior that would otherwise be thought barbarous.

for the record, i am NOT for the killing of deformed children...i hope you realize that. but if there was a section in the "holy book" of a palading that said "all disfigured children must be brought to me to ease their suffering", then i would not penalize a PC paladin for quick and humane killing. now, if the paladin started to have FUN with the killing..

what an odd subject....i'm arguing for a behavior that is sickening.

 

[EOL]

I could tell when I was composing my own post that I was sailing at the edge of some dangerous waters, but I think you've plotted a course for the center of the Hurricane I agree that morality is a difficult subject at any time, but I guess with D&D I've always been more of a moral absolutist than a subjectivist....

 

[Victim]

but what if the paladin's FAITH says that all deformed children are to be killed (for mercy's sake)? nazi germany euthanized mentally ill people under the guise that it was humane. many well meaning germans, not even nazi's, believed it was humane. so morals can be rationalized for behavior that would otherwise be thought barbarous.

for the record, i am NOT for the killing of deformed children...i hope you realize that. but if there was a section in the "holy book" of a palading that said "all disfigured children must be brought to me to ease their suffering", then i would not penalize a PC paladin for quick and humane killing. now, if the paladin started to have FUN with the killing..

what an odd subject....i'm arguing for a behavior that is sickening.

Then the faith would be evil. You don't have to believe that you're evil to be evil. In all probability, most evil people would think that their behavior is acceptable and perhaps just.