What is in the ultimate system?

Summer-Knight925

First Post
What does your 'ultimate system' consist of?

How are skills (if any)?
Hit points/attacks/armor?
combat?
Role play?
Magic?
Treasure?
Monsters?

What makes a good game? the more detail the better (yes you can write fourteen pages of explanation, it is okay, just make it interesting)
 

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Please excuse my temporary excursion into insanity.

The following describes my ultimate game system.

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I want a new game
One that won't make me gag
One that won't make me crash and burn
Or make me feel three feet tall

I want a new game
One that won't hurt my friends
One that won't make my date leave me
Or make my eyes too crossed

One that won't make me nervous
Wonderin' what to do
One that makes me feel like the day I first played
The day I first played

I want a new game
One that won't die
One that don't cost too much
Or come in a box

I want a new game
One that won't go away
One that won't make me sick to death
One that won't make me sleep all day

One that won't make me nervous
Wonderin' what to do
One that makes me feel like the day I first played
The day I first played

I want a new game
One that does what it should
One that won't make me feel too bad
One that won't make me feel too good

I want a new game
One with no doubt
One that won't make me talk too much
Or make my face break out

One that won't make me nervous
Wonderin' what to do
One that makes me feel like the day I first played
The day I first played
The day I first played, yea, yea

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We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
 

I don't know if there's an ultimate system. I'm quite excited about Savage worlds after getting over my prejudices about the dice system, but I can't tell if it still feels good after 5, 10 or 15 years. If it does, I can say it's my ultimate system :)

What I learned about SW is that opening one's eyes from preset expectations can help hugely in finding your own system.

A good game is one where everyone has fun (whether it's pure fun, being scared, excited etc), which advances moderately fast, has different elements and focuses more on story and style rather than precise mechanics.
 

What does your 'ultimate system' consist of?

A really simple core, expressed simply, and without being loaded down with loads of options, backed up by a plethora of additional options to add to the game that are properly balanced, don't introduce power-creep, and work to maintain interest.

The ultimate system doesn't currently exist, and will probably never exist.

How are skills (if any)?
Hit points/attacks/armor?
combat?
Role play?
Magic?
Treasure?
Monsters?

All of these are negotiable.

What makes a good game?

The people around the table, more than any other single factor. I would rather play FATAL with a good group and a good GM than play either 4e or Pathfinder or SWSE or WFRP 2e, or any other of my preferred systems, with a bunch of jerks.

Yes, it pretty much is that simple.
 

There is no such thing as "ultimate system" for me. I like many different play styles and every game that tries to fit them all works poorly for most. I need multiple games, each designed for specific style and setting.


Anyway, there are some common traits that each game should have, IMO:

0. Be clear and honest on what it is about, what it does and how it does it. I love games with a lot of sidebars explaining designer intent behind various rules and setting elements.

1. Rules that focus on what is important for the game and ignore what is not. If the game is about adventuring, don't waste my time and money on crafting rules. If it's not about combat, don't put a chapter about fighting in there.

2. Rules that are easy to use. They may be more or less abstract, more or less complicated, but after a single session of learning them they should be intuitive enough to use without much looking up things in the book during play.

3. Single book that is all I need to play. If I need two books of rules, a separate book with monsters and one more with setting description, the game has lost me already. I'll use my money and shelf space for four one-book games instead.

4. Rewarding a play style that fits the game. A good game focuses its rules on players that want to play it as designed (and communicates clearly how it is designed to be played). It does not spend a lot of rules on preventing people that want to abuse it from abusing it, because they will always find a way to do so.
A good game does not create a tension between playing a fun (interesting, genre-appropriate, multidimensional) character and playing an effective one. A good game is designed in such a way that interesting, genre-appropriate characters are the optimal ones.

5. Inspiring setting. It does not have to (and even should not) be described in detail. What I need is enough info to get the feeling and enough hooks to hang my games on. A few evocative sentences work much better than a few paragraphs of cold data.


Not all games I play fit the criteria above. Also, not all games that fit them are fun for me - there are a few games that I perceive as well designed, but have no interest in playing.

A few examples of games that are great for me - perfect in design, fun in play: Nobilis, Dogs in the Vineyard, Mouse Guard, Wolsung. Each one is different and each one is really good in what it does.
 

There is no such thing as "ultimate system" for me. I like many different play styles and every game that tries to fit them all works poorly for most. I need multiple games, each designed for specific style and setting.

Ditto.

There is strength in diversity.
 

Put me down for "there is no ultimate system" as well. I think when you set down rigid criteria for what makes a system good or bad, you close yourself off to good experiences (a little like only watching one genre of film, or only being open to music with certain instuments or style). Generally when I play a new game what I look for is whether the system sets out what it achieves to do and whether it is fun to play. But I wouldn't say "I enjoyed this game, and it had a unified mechanic or it had minimalist design, so those are my criteria for picking a new system now".
 

Ultimate system for what?

Different games have different primary goals and objectives beyond the "have fun" criteria. Even a universal system needs to be tweaked and adjusted to provide the best experience for a particular genre or feel.

Heck, even within a single broad type such as fantasy there are many approaches any one of which can be described as ultimate by those who favor it.

The ultimate system then is the one everyone is having the best time with at the moment. :D
 

I'll agree with others that there is strength in diversity of RPGs, but at the same time there are certain "ultimate" goals I like RPGs to strive towards. Something I've discussed before is the need to balance complexity and elegance. Complexity refers to the level of detail and breadth of activity the game encompasses. Elegance refers to doing a lot with a little. An elegant game will allow a player to do many different things using essentially the same simple rules; all while feeling like he's actually performing different tasks in game, and not just repeating the same task in different contexts.

How many different things the players can do is a function of complexity, and a game can be as simple or complex as the designer wishes. But a game should always be as elegant as the level of complexity allows. Elegance means the rules are more easily internalized, which means they are more likely to operate in the background. This means greater immersion, and to me more fun.

Whether its a rules-lite indie RPG or a "universal" d20 clone, an elegant RPG is my ultimate system.
 

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