What is it about Drizzt that you just can't stand?

[laiyna]

Drizzt, don't get me started.....

Why I hate Drizzt? simple only a few major things:

1) When does he ever gets into serious trouble? (eg almost all FR writers lack the quality to be a desent writer so all characters got no depth and are uber-powerfull)

2) He's a Drow, Drow is the FR copy of the Shadow Elf. The Shadow Elf was original an elf who was evil but could not/hardly be recognised and worked within the elf socity for its own goals. This made the elves spooky at times, and elves hated they're cossins. The good point was that Shadow Elves had black hair, what other elves did not have, but a bit of die for the hair collor helped a lot. FR switched they're skin with hair collor and let them live underground.. Do I need to say more before I start to puke?

3) Its a tipicxal cheesy character with no depth, no real background or personality, just a bunch of powers.

Lai

 

[mirzabah]

Bah! As someone who read all of Elizabeth Moon's books about Paxe Pasken Pasenk that paladin chick, I find "Drizzt" quite tame by comparison.

Feh! Didn't read those either. In fact I'm thinking of taking up the advice of one of our country's greatest literary minds:

I don't believe you should read anything you haven't written yourself.
Elle MacPherson

And you could just tell she was thinking "... especially if all the character's have stupid names."

 

[Yuan-Ti]

I read the first two books with Drizzt in them (I forget the titles, the first two of the Icewind Dale trilogy) and I thought he was okay. Certainly more interesting than the other characters in the book and far more original than anything the other FR books had in them at the time.

Then I read the Dark Elf Trilogy (Homeland, etc.) and I thought Salvatore had done something amazing-- he had gotten a whole trilogy of excellent, original novels past the "quality writing" censors that reigned at TSR. I thought Drizzt was pretty cool, but I was mostly excited about Salvatore's writing.

What made Drizzt cool? He was unique. He had bucked the trend, overcome a horrific childhood to be something better. He was special.

Do I hate him now? Not really. But I hate the fact that so MANY people want to play Drow now. Especially good Drow. Who are rangers. With scimitars. And purple eyes. Yuck. And it doesn't help that WotC has encouraged people to play them by "carefully balancing" (except for the HalfOrc) the character races and then saying in the FRCS, go ahead and play a Drow and get it all with no penalties! (Yeah, yeah, ECL, whatever. How many DMs force their Drow characters to use that?)

Let's get this straight: Drow are evil, despicable, awful creatures. There might be one in a billion who overcomes that and is good. If you are playing in FR, there already is one...

 

[RogueJK]

Re: Drizzt, don't get me started.....

2) He's a Drow, Drow is the FR copy of the Shadow Elf. The Shadow Elf was original an elf who was evil but could not/hardly be recognised and worked within the elf socity for its own goals. This made the elves spooky at times, and elves hated they're cossins. The good point was that Shadow Elves had black hair, what other elves did not have, but a bit of die for the hair collor helped a lot. FR switched they're skin with hair collor and let them live underground.. Do I need to say more before I start to puke?

Actually, Drow were in D&D long before the Forgotten Realms...

In fact, there are mythological examples of a race of dark-skinned elves that dwell underground, such as the Döckâlfar of Teutonic myth.

 

[Ulrick]

I don't mind Drizzt in the novels although the latter ones are blah.

And when I read the books back in high school I thought they were pretty good. Yeah, the angst thing gets old but I usually get used to it from reading the Elric series and other stuff by Micheal Moorcock.

I just don't like how he's invincible. And in D&D terms he's very munchkin-esque.


Ulrick

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's a trite stereotype, and it was before the character....it's the Rebel-Chique image. The "Man, I'm so bad arse! I can do anything, 'cuz I'm a rebel!" The "I'm cool 'cuz I'm different."

It's a very popular image. Peopple who don't fit in with the rest of society (e.g.: those who read a lot of fantasy) sympathize with it. "Hey, that guy's different like me! And he's cool!" It's successful, as far as I can see, because it taps into that angst that all the readers like to think they have.

He's an outcast...so, of course, those he was outcast from have to be Wrong and Evil, and he has to be all angsty and goth about his life, and only comes out of his shell to make snide remarks and observations that are (of course) the deepest thing anyone's ever said.

He suffers, at once, from the problem of being outcast (and thus depressed, angsty, dark, and cool), and being superman (and thus being invincible, witty, funny, skilled, and cool).

It's like...look at the main character from Varsity Blues and I don't think you'll see much of a difference.

The biggest problem I have is that He Can Do No Wrong. His rebellion was the Right thing to do. He only suffers from doubt to make him cool. The times he does get beat up (which he has to do, to show that he's not *all* kick-ass) he either gets beat up due to cheating or in order to make him cooler in the fall. If he falls, he can be angsty for a while before he can really win. What might be precieved as a mistake is something that makes him more understandable and empathic to the reader.

Basically, he's nothing that I can't wipe off of my creative hind after using the facilities.

If he was ever give a case where he *was*, in fact, *wrong*, and it made him look *bad* to be wrong, I may be more intrigued. If he ever made an honest mistake, *actually* screwed up, I would be very happy. If he ever, say, underestimated an enemy that everybody else knew he shouldn't overestimate, then got his crap handed to him, and had to admit his failing, re-evaluate his situation, and change something before he won, that would be a good start.

Despite this, I'd actually look forward to something like a movie on him or something. He strikes me as a decent action hero, no worse than a million others. As a literary character, as artwork, he blows the big one. As a dispensible pop icon, I can handle him.

I don't really have a problem with people liking him. What I have a problem with is when people say how cool he is and try to convince me to like him...because he's actually not worth it. You wanna waste your adoration on nothing more complex than a football player who is pushed too hard byhis parents, go for it. But don't tel me I should do it.

The mimics simply tell me I should, and then I have to kill them.

 

[SurgicalSteel]

drow...

Do I hate him now? Not really. But I hate the fact that so MANY people want to play Drow now. Especially good Drow. Who are rangers. With scimitars. And purple eyes. Yuck. And it doesn't help that WotC has encouraged people to play them by "carefully balancing" (except for the HalfOrc) the character races and then saying in the FRCS, go ahead and play a Drow and get it all with no penalties! (Yeah, yeah, ECL, whatever. How many DMs force their Drow characters to use that?)

Well, I have had a player play a drow (my brother), I forced him to use ECL, he wasn't good at fighting (he was a scout, and a good one). Unfortunately, he wasn't good at finding traps and was incinerated on level 1 of Forge of Fury (a dungeon which deserves its name, and then some...another story for another time).
So much for the drow, then he made a halfling.
ECL crippled his character, and in my opinion, the cure is worse than the disease. A fourth level character with 10 HPs...what a friggin joke.


To Drizzt, and the discussion proper...

I was into the realms when no-one was (when it first came out) because I was a new DM, and FR came out right when I started DMing.
I am the first person I know of who read the book that started it all: the Crystal Shard.
(I am not stating this to enhance myself, my point is that I was under no influence, it was totally obscure and unknown, I got the book because I was making FR "my world", and I liked Darkwalker on Moonshae")


Drizzt was cool in 'Shard.
He was a nice guy who could fight very well.
He was the antithesis of a thug or bully.
He was "human", fallable, but insightful and unpredictable.

He was repeatedly almost killed in the first book [first by a Yeti (a friggin' Yeti?!, who even uses them?), then by a barbarian chieftain, then by a frost giant named "Biggrin", then by a unique demon, then by a wizard].

All of the opponents in the story were interesting characters (which began to change in later books), he was mortal, and DANG!! was it exciting.
Then...suddenly...Drizzt turned into an unkillable preaching freak.
And THAT was when it got stupid.

What do I say?
Read the 'Shard, forget the rest.
Most of my friends have come to that conclusion themselves, without my help.

As my brother said, "Crystal Shard was a fluke. When you look at everything else that Salvatore wrote, none were nearly as good, though there were some pretty good moments or scenes occasionally."

His judgement was little more harsh than I was willing to make, but the substance is pretty much dead on, IMHO.

 

[KingOfChaos]

1. His first name sounds like a STD or a sneeze.
2. I hate that metal brass thing he wears on his head
3. His cat is smarter than he is.
4. They can't keep his stats straight
5. No way in hell he defeated a greater fiend by himself
6. The bad guys were much cooler in the books than he was.
7. Artemis Enteri should have beat him to a pulp
8. The hordes of Drizzt clones drives me insane as a DM. SO much that I have banned the ranger class from my games.
9. Drizzt fans are almost as bad as the Dragonlance fans
10. I'd like to see a book with him in it that doesn't turn into a slaughter fest at the end, with Drizzt coming out without a scratch
11. He is simply too unbelievable, even as a fantasy character.

 

[BMF]

He's a gimp.

 

[Squire James]

Bah! As someone who read all of Elizabeth Moon's books about Paxe Pasken Pasenk that paladin chick, I find "Drizzt" quite tame by comparison.

That's Paksennarion, and yeah there's a reason why most people called her "Paks". I liked her because she was a living example of a paladin who wasn't required to be stupid. For instance, when luck gave her a tactical advantage over a major evil priest, she did not hesistate to use it! Some DM's I know would have tried to take away a PC's paladinhood unless they let the guy stand up and cast another spell!

Besides, if you like SHARK's descriptions of his campaign world, well, it's pretty obvious Elizabeth Moon was in the Corps herself... a lot (maybe TOO many) good guys who kicked posteriors and took names!