What *is* it about paladins that makes people nutty, anyway?

[ForceUser]

...the assertion that you're able to determine the level of this complex variable in people you've never met via comments that slip by moderators on a messageboard regarding a roleplaying game is an example of inferrence gone wild.

But maybe I'm being a sophist.

Let's just say it's a lot like gaydar.

 

[WayneLigon]

Why is it always paladins that we get these threads about?

1. Because it's the only class with an explicit code of behavior.
2. People can't get misremembered bits of 'chivilrous stupid' King Arthur stories out of their heads and think the paladin must behave like a combination of Puritan and Catholic Priest.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

IProblem: People who play/DM paladins don't actually read the rules. This doesn't apply in all cases, but in enough to make it point #1. Lets consider everything that the "Code of Conduct" heading:

A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities.

According to this, the only way to lose the paladin class abilities is willingly committing evil acts.

Ummm... while we're talking about reading the rules, lets have a look at the last bit of the quote - I've made it bold even. So yes by the rules, a single willfully committed evil act or a singly committed gross violation of the Code of Conduct is enough for one's deity to pull the pin (remember, if the Paladin is still faithful, help is but an atonement away). Alternatively, if a pattern of behaviour develops leading to an alignment change from LG, the pin is pulled too (but most likely will require a far greater investment of effort to earn back the previous status).

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[rounser]

a single willfully committed evil act or a singly committed gross violation of the Code of Conduct is enough for one's deity to pull the pin

I wonder....perhaps a house rule that trades in Detect Evil for "What would Torm do?", whereby you can ask the DM whether what you're considering doing is above board, if there's any doubt.

Not really any less deus ex machina than Detect Evil on demand, really, and would solve a lot of hassle for both paladin and DM in one blow. Some would argue that this takes all the fun out of moral dilemma and busting the paladin down to mere fighter if he puts a foot wrong, but others would argue that that's only fun for the rest of the group anyway...

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wonder....perhaps a house rule that trades in Detect Evil for "What would Torm do?", whereby you can ask the DM whether what you're considering doing is above board, if there's any doubt.

Just stick a box to your head!

Phylactery of Faithfulness: This item is a small box containing religious scripture affixed to a leather cord and tied around the forehead. There is no mundane way to determine what function this religious item performs until it is worn. The wearer of a phylactery of faithfulness is aware of any action or item that could adversely affect his alignment and his standing with his deity, including magical effects. He acquires this information prior to performing such an action or becoming associated with such an item if he takes a moment to contemplate the act.

Faint divination; CL 1st; Craft Wondrous Item, detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law; Price 1,000 gp.

-Hyp.

 

[Pseudonym]

Phylactery of Faithfulness:

In 2nd edition my paladin had a holy avenger that duplicated that ability. It was the best decision that DM ever made.

 

[davidschwartznz]

I don't want to sidetrack this thread (I may be too late), but I had to respond to this:

Spirituality speaks to people of many denominations and beliefs. It is thought to include a system of beliefs that encompasses love, compassion and respect for life. Individuals may experience both spirituality and religion very privately within themselves (internally), and/or through social interaction with persons and organizations in an external way. Spirituality is about our existence, relationships with ourselves, others and the universe. It is something we experience and requires abstract thinking and will. Spiritual development provides us with insight and understanding of ourselves and others. The spiritual component of a personality is the dimension or function that integrates all other aspects of personhood…and is often seen as a search for meaning in life.

This isn't a definition for 'spirituality' this is a defintion for being a human. There is nothing in this statement that differentiates spirituality from any other system of philosophy; and everybody has a system of philosphy, even if they're one of those people who blindly follows someone else's philosophy. If you're going to argue that I can't play a paladin because I'm an atheist, you're definition of spirituality should really include something about faith or the supernatural. To say an atheist isn't 'in touch' with the universe or that they can't have an absolute morality is pure ignorance.

 

[ForceUser]

As far as I'm concerned, atheism is a system of belief, and is thus covered under the definition I posted. (the definition comes from a Unitarian website, a religion that includes atheism in its belief structure. I sought an all-encompassing definition.)

 

[rounser]

Just stick a box to your head!

Now, if we could just get the box inside his head...I mean, we have the technology. We could make him better, faster, stronger...lawful-er...good-er...

"I am the Paladinator 3000. Hasta la vista, pony."
*Dismisses pokemount*
"He'll be back. Trust me."

 

[Hypersmurf]

In 2nd edition my paladin had a holy avenger that duplicated that ability. It was the best decision that DM ever made.

Wow - all the benefits of the Phylactery, and you don't have to have a box stuck to your head!

Luxury!

-Hyp.