D&D 5E What is Over-Powered?

No, it was one 7th level PC (the necromancer), one 5th level PC (Shadow Monk), and one 1st level PC (Sorcerer). 6 Allosaurs was already a double-deadly encounter for them. Yes, the Allosaurs did target the zombies first, and in fact all of his zombies perished in the ensuing fight(s) (the allosaurs tried to run away when 3 were down but he pursued with his two surviving zombies), but considering the level of the opposition he did just fine.

Yes, ranged foes will take this guy down pretty easily--but weren't you the one who was just telling me in another thread that archery duels are a rare corner-case, much less hill giants throwing boulders? Hopefully that answers your question of why "stock monsters" are not killing this guy "pretty easily". He has basically the same combat profile as a heavy melee fighter. A melee fighter will die to manticore bombardment just as easily, which is why smart parties have a ranged component. Remember, this was your question:



I hope you feel it's been answered.

(And yes, I could kill the guy on a budget. I don't even need manticores. 10 hobgoblins in a fort would do the job for half the XP budget. But killing PCs on a budget isn't my job; providing a sandbox is my job.)

In any case, yes, I've mentioned a few times in this thread that the PCs are about to run into some allosaur cavalry archers this week, which will shine a spotlight on the Shadow Monk and perhaps the Sorcerer.

I'd point out something I missed the first time through. You have given them a Legendary level magic item at very low level. That, right there, is going to skew things heavily. Also, you are allowing them to nova. I mean, if you had brought in another encounter after a short rest after the Allosaurus', the necro would have a serious problem. He's burning through spells at a very high rate. Which will allow him to punch above his weight class.

About the "archer duel" thing. Meh, that's not the same thing at all. For one, I said that the giants get a round or two of attacks, not extended ranged fighting. A fighter has a bow and out ranges the manticores. The necro has spells and is seriously out ranged for almost all attacks.

It sounds like you are allowing the PC's to completely control the pace of encounters, which will result in PC's punching above their weight class.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

[MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] - You can't always control when the players are allowed to rest without railroading (like HoTDQ tries to do).
Even then, Wizards and their ritual casting can make it difficult for the DM to intervene without some rule bending, which is a big no-no at many tables.
You cant always have control of that part of the game unless you want to sacrifice the sandbox nature.
It gets worse at higher levels when characters get access to spells like Magnificent Mansion and such. You can try to attempt a sense of urgency through a plot but that requires player buy in.

Even after all of that, you cant stop your players conserving resources and then going nova at a times of THEIR choosing. My players did that and cakewalked a BBEG encounter worth about 60,000XP adjusted at level 13.
 
Last edited:

Would love more details on how things shook out this way. Why didn't they just shoot him/stab him to death? Did Glassstaff win initiative and then cast Sleep or something? Did he Levitate out of their reach and they only had melee weapons? Etc.

The party consisted of a Paladin, Druid, Ranger, and Rogue (with another Ranger who got called in to work mid-session, so he was taking a short rest while all this went down). Instead of having the Redbrand Ruffians a group of troublemakers in the town like in the book, I decided that I'd make Phandalin a full-on police state: a palisade around the town, watchtowers set up, and a bunch of weaker bandits (CR 1/8) to patrol and keep the townsfolk in line. The chain of command went Glasstaff > Blackaxe (the aforementioned CR 4 barbarian who was the face of the operation) > Lucius and Leyara (two CR 2 berserker twins who were lieutenants, responsible for keeping the townspeople in check).

The party had been captured in their first day in town after picking a fight with Lucius, recovered their weapons that were confiscated at the gate (although they managed to conceal a couple of daggers, a couple of swords, and a handaxe), and infiltrated Tresendar Manor. Along the way they killed Leyara and Blackaxe, as well as finding the hidden satchel with gold and a potion of invisibility, so spirits were high.

I think about now would be a good time to mention the mechanical changes I made to Glasstaff. Because of his Staff of Defense, his base AC was 13, and he could further increase it to 16 by casting Mage Armor from his staff (consuming one of 10 charges). He could also consume 2 charges from his staff to cast Shield. Normally, his spells are as follows:
Cantrips: Light, mage hand, shocking grasp
1st-level Spells (4 slots): Charm person, magic missile
2nd-level Spells (3 slots): Hold person, misty step

However, I figured that he'd be focused more on defense and control than offense, so I modified his spell list:
Cantrips: Friends, light, mage hand, minor illusion
1st-level Spells (4 slots): Charm person, grease, magic missile
2nd-level Spells (3 slots): Crown of madness, hold person, misty step, shatter

I also gave him the Alert feat, and locked his doors with Arcane Locks (Bandits are unreliable at best, so having the locks was an easy solution to why Blackaxe didn't kill him in his sleep and take over the operation). His scroll of fireball I changed to a scroll of hypnotic pattern, since I play my NPCs as being out to defeat the PCs at any cost (within their own limitations, of course), and a fireball would murder the whole party if he read the scroll, whereas everyone has decent Wis saves to resist hypnotic pattern. His familiar became a raven instead of a rat, and there were holes near the ceiling above the secret door so that his familiar could fly out and bring messages to the rest of the bandits.

Having been beaten up by the bandits, both before their arrest and in the manor, the party was pretty low on HP at this point. They'd been told where Glasstaff's quarters were, but not how to get in. After they tried to pick the lock on the secret door (and failed), they tried to break in the main door (and also failed). Talking through the door, Glasstaff expressed his disappointment that they'd been destabilizing his power structure, and after some conversation the PCs withdrew to discuss their options. Glasstaff wanted the paladin's head (not attached) since he took Blackaxe's, so they decided that the ranger would drink the Potion of Invisibility that they found beforehand, and when the door opened to let the paladin in, he'd sneak in as well, kill Glasstaff, and all would be done. The druid turned into a spider and crawled into Glasstaff's quarters through the holes for the familiar, while the rogue would try to get in the back way (because he didn't know the door was magically locked the first time, I gave him one more attempt to try and open it). The paladin was adamant that he'd be the one to take the fall for Blackaxe, since he'd rather die than see his allies dead. Glasstaff heard that last bit...

The paladin and ranger's plan started off terribly. Glasstaff didn't open the door and invite the paladin in, instead he cracked the door open and lobbed a magic missile spell at him (wounding him but not dealing too much damage). Thinking quickly, the ranger grabbed the door and threw it open before it could be slammed shut, and so Glasstaff retreated to the corner of his lab, out of reach of the paladin. The initiative order was extremely odd: the Paladin went first, and Glasstaff (despite Alert) went last.

The party converged on him but didn't get high enough attack rolls to bypass his first two shields, so on his turns he first used Shatter (catching the druid, paladin and ranger, but dealing really low damage) then Crown of Madness, charming the paladin as the rogue joined the fight. Why the paladin? Not only because the paladin was the heaviest hitter, but also because the paladin would rather die than see his allies dead--and Glasstaff is a sadistic bastard. The paladin hit the ranger on his first turn and missed on the second (in these two turns, Glasstaff took a couple of hits but passed all his Concentration checks). Having only one shield left in his staff (but having 3 1st-level slots and 1 2nd-level slot), Glasstaff dismissed the Crown of Madness and used his scroll of hypnotic pattern... Which everyone but the druid failed their save for.

At this point I'm going to take a step back and describe the current situation: This fight was taking place in the laboratory, so the first Shatter destroyed the table and alchemical equipment. Shards of wood and glass and foul fluids all over the floor. Glasstaff's staff is nearly drained of charges, but he has most of his spell slots left. His health has been whittled away by the last few hits so he's within one solid hit of death. The paladin, ranger, and rogue are all barely conscious, as well as being hypnotized by the hypnotic pattern (incapacitated and speed drops to 0... They've entered a vegetative state). The druid is also barely conscious, but it's his initiative count. He could run, he could fight, or he could try to wake up his allies. Having seen that Poison Spray was his best bet for bypassing Glasstaff's shield, he decided to use Thorn Whip... Which surpassed Glasstaff's base AC, but his last shield was consumed deflecting the attack.

Glasstaff dropped the druid with magic missile, before going on to the rogue and ranger. The druid failed his first save and got a nat 1 on the second, the rogue died on his 4th save, the ranger passed all 3 of his saves. Seeing that the druid and rogue were dead and the ranger was stable, Glasstaff (having a single 2nd-level spell slot and 5HP at this point) dismissed his concentration, let the Paladin see his allies were dead or dying (because psychological torture!) and used his last spell slot for another Shatter. The corpses and their equipment were pulverized, the Paladin failed his save and was dropped to 0 hit points, and the Ranger had to make MORE death saves... But luckily they both stabilized.

Afterwards, the player of the Paladin decided that he's going to change his god from Mielikki (goddess of forests) to Tyr (god of justice), and when he wakes up he'll swear the Oath of Vengeance over the bodies of his fallen comrades.

To answer your original question, they tried to shoot/stab him to death, but the Staff of Defense bumped his AC to ridiculously high levels. Hitting AC 21 is extremely difficult, and he didn't have to conserve the staff's charges for later encounters. His initiative was at the very bottom of the order, which was a HUGE boost because his shields (including his first) were up for everyone else's turns as opposed to breaking halfway through the round. It never hurt that everyone rolled poorly on their saves, either.
 



No. The challenge of an encounter is supposed to vary widely. Some encounters will be near-100% chance for the PC's to win, others will even be a 100% chance win because they are just incidental encounters with wandering monsters or when the monsters are injured or badly outnumbered, or much lower level of course. Other encounters will be more difficult, and a 50/50 encounter is about as difficult as the game will get ever if the PC's are going to have a fair chance to win.
I didn't mean that every encounter should be "balanced", or what the DMG rates a "medium" encounter. I meant that a medium encounter should be fairly easy - a party should be able to handle 5-7 of them per day (with two short rests thrown in there). A fight that actually puts the PCs' lives in jeopardy (barring very bad rolls and/or strategy) should be a rarity, because if there's even a 10% chance of someone dying in every fight, that's gonna lead to one or more PC deaths per level.
 

I didn't mean that every encounter should be "balanced", or what the DMG rates a "medium" encounter. I meant that a medium encounter should be fairly easy - a party should be able to handle 5-7 of them per day (with two short rests thrown in there). A fight that actually puts the PCs' lives in jeopardy (barring very bad rolls and/or strategy) should be a rarity, because if there's even a 10% chance of someone dying in every fight, that's gonna lead to one or more PC deaths per level.

That is one way to play it. On the other hand, when was the last time you read a good fantasy novel where none of the battles had even a 10% chance of casualties? The best stories are when you go up against clearly superior foes for compelling reasons and have to beat them anyway.

Dresden Files adventures with difficulties below Deadly don't even make it into the books, they're casually referenced as backstory.
 

That is one way to play it. On the other hand, when was the last time you read a good fantasy novel where none of the battles had even a 10% chance of casualties? The best stories are when you go up against clearly superior foes for compelling reasons and have to beat them anyway.

Dresden Files adventures with difficulties below Deadly don't even make it into the books, they're casually referenced as backstory.

Writing a story and writing an adventure, despite sharing certain traits, are two very different things.

Even in those stories, unless they happen to be dark and gritty, how often do protagonists actually die? Probably not very often. The writer makes you feel that the characters are in mortal jeopardy when in actuality he has no intention of killing them, because that's what a good author does.

If you have a 10% chance of a death per fight, you're going to lose a PC about every 10 fights. Individual campaigns will vary, but over the long term it will be 1 in 10. That's easily 1 PC death every 2 adventuring days. Unless you're running a Tomb of Horrors style game, that seems rather high and unheroic. That's why the odds are actually significantly more in the PCs favor, in general.
 


I almost preferred the old way of doing things which was 4 encounters per day that were challenging vs 6-8 encounters per day that are easy. The later feels very grindy.

The other side effect as well is if you want to use numbers in your encounter (3+) you need to use lower CR creatures, which can be hit and miss quite frankly. Players don't really feel threatened in terms of death, but they do chew up resources.
 

Remove ads

Top