D&D 5E What is REALLY wrong with the Wizard? (+)

[Micah Sweet]

i also think fighters and possibly other martials should get legendary resistance maybe Con mod times per day or orof bonus times per day. Starting maybe around level 10ish?

I like that idea. I would definitely make it fighters only though. Barbs are plenty tough enough.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

i also think fighters and possibly other martials should get legendary resistance maybe Con mod times per day or orof bonus times per day. Starting maybe around level 10ish?

that's a ridiculous number, honestly - you can end up with as many (if using con and not a barbarian) or more (if using prof or con as a barbarian) legendary resistances as tiamat (EDIT: and you can [or just flat out would if using prof] start with more then most other legendary monsters!). i'd say just have it replace the reroll save effect from indomitable (which means you end up with a max of 3 uses at level 17, and start with 1 at level 9).

 

[FrogReaver]

that's a ridiculous number, honestly - you can end up with as many (if using con and not a barbarian) or more (if using prof or con as a barbarian) legendary resistances as tiamat (EDIT: and you can [or just flat out would if using prof] start with more then most other legendary monsters!). i'd say just have it replace the reroll save effect from indomitable (which means you end up with a max of 3 uses at level 17, and start with 1 at level 9).

1. Tiamat is only meant for a single encounter not a whole adventuring day.

2. I also don’t think you understand just how far ahead wizards and casters in general are by level 17.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

1. Tiamat is only meant for a single encounter not a whole adventuring day.

2. I also don’t think you understand just how far ahead wizards and casters in general are by level 17

I can run tiamat against most of my parties by level 12, and some as low at 7. Especially with melee focused high hp spellcasters

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Most fantasy Wizards can do anything unless they can't, lol.

Even if they claim to not be able to do something because of "da rulz", you can be sure someone in the story will do something "impossible" to flex their power and style on lesser casters.

True, I will give you this. Many magic systems are not consistent or simple left vague so that someone can break the rules, or "dig deep", or whatever to do whatever is plot needed.

But they still don't seem super D&D wizard like. They may be as or more powerful than D&D wizards at times but they don't seem to be as reliable or prolific in spell slinging which is also IMO what makes the D&D wizard unique (and mostly not in a good way).

It is rarely -- meet some obstacle, throw spells at it, repeat. There is almost always some limitation that requires non spell solutions to some problems (traveling, fighting, social, sneaking, etc). And yes, it is often not well thought out and comes down to narrative coupon but it is there.

I'm not familar with all your examples but in the Belgariad wasn't there fatigue or something that prevented wizards from using the will and word at the same rate as a D&D Wiz?

And it's true Harry Potter wizards seem to be able to do spells at will. That said, the stuff even the teachers can do seems a bit limited -- mostly the same 5-6 spells. With other magic coming from potions and items. Although those don't seem to be super hard to come by either. You can't just teleport anywhere but need to go through the fireplace, you don't see everyone going invisible -- just the special plot cloak, etc

I still say its this combination of power, breadth, reliability, abundance, and no cost that makes the D&D wizard what it is and not like many fictional magic users. As pointed out in other threads, even most D&D fiction doesn't really allow for a full spell load out and use.

So where I land is either the high level Wizard should be reined in and would advocate on breadth first, or just accept that this Dr. Strange style Wizard is a critcal part of D&D at higher levels and create a mythic martial to go along with it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You can't just teleport anywhere but need to go through the fireplace,

I agree in theory but (I think they call it asperating) teleporting is like a high school class... it's an owl thing and several character do it... but it must have limits but other then the school being warded against it we don't know what those limits are.

If I were a wizard I would night crawleer around my house... poof I'm in the kitchen, now poof to bed.... but we never see anthing like that so there MUST be a limit we don't know.

 

[FrogReaver]

I still say its this combination of power, breadth, reliability, abundance, and no cost that makes the D&D wizard what it is and not like many fictional magic users. As pointed out in other threads, even most D&D fiction doesn't really allow for a full spell load out and use.

yep. It’s really the combination. Give wizards 3 spells to prepare and 6 to know and they are greatly diminished. Drastically lower their number of slots - say to 1 per spell level and it’s the same. Greatly Tone down the scope of what spells can accomplish. Or perhaps hust lessen each front a moderate amount and you might get close. Though likely some OP spells need reworked. Simulacrum and forcecage are notables.

 

[tetrasodium]

that's a ridiculous number, honestly - you can end up with as many (if using con and not a barbarian) or more (if using prof or con as a barbarian) legendary resistances as tiamat (EDIT: and you can [or just flat out would if using prof] start with more then most other legendary monsters!). i'd say just have it replace the reroll save effect from indomitable (which means you end up with a max of 3 uses at level 17, and start with 1 at level 9).

almost any number of them would be a ridiculous number as long as the current rest & recovery mechanics alongside PCs with reserves expected to last 6-8 medium to hard encounters remains. Bob: "oop, I used my resist thing, we need to take a long/short rest">GM:"it's really not safe here & you know it">entire group:"so what, lets take a rest" is just too easy for players to force

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree in theory but (I think they call it asperating) teleporting is like a high school class... it's an owl thing and several character do it... but it must have limits but other then the school being warded against it we don't know what those limits are.

If I were a wizard I would night crawleer around my house... poof I'm in the kitchen, now poof to bed.... but we never see anthing like that so there MUST be a limit we don't know.

The twins actually poofed straight from their room to the kitchen the day they passed their magic driving test.

 

[Micah Sweet]

yep. It’s really the combination. Give wizards 3 spells to prepare and 6 to know and they are greatly diminished. Drastically lower their number of slots - say to 1 per spell level and it’s the same. Greatly Tone down the scope of what spells can accomplish. Or perhaps hust lessen each front a moderate amount and you might get close. Though likely some OP spells need reworked. Simulacrum and forcecage are notables.

I can see a LOT of wizard players protesting that. No one I know would play a wizard with those limitations in D&D.