What is Rifts like?

[Jack of Shadows]

If cover art determined the success of a game, Rifts would be doing pretty well(I think).

What's it like? I played it once a long time ago and don't have a grasp of the rules. What's the general dice-rolling mechanic that's used in Rifts? Is it hard to learn?

thanks,
Jamie

Rifts is the greatest game you can never play. As a setting it is just amazing. As a game it's a flaming brown paper bag sitting on your doorstep after the doorbell has rung.

JoS

 

[Graf]

Whiner Knight,
Your GM sounds like a jerk. A sonic boom isn't going to move a car. And the rules don't have anything about that.
If he or she was irritated with you taking GB (which, as you pointed out, is the most powerful choice in terms of round-by-round damage output in the core book) s/he should just have said "don't play that".

 

[Andor]

Whiner Knight,
Your GM sounds like a jerk. A sonic boom isn't going to move a car. And the rules don't have anything about that.
If he or she was irritated with you taking GB (which, as you pointed out, is the most powerful choice in terms of round-by-round damage output in the core book) s/he should just have said "don't play that".

I don't think so. It's totally in keeping with the over the top feel of Rifts, and the Boom Gun in particular. It's also pretty much flavor text so who cares? By the general rules of mega-damage a burned out car is almost worthless as cover, at best it'll stop a point or two of MDC. So how exactly is the GM being a jerk?

OTOH 25 ISP per shot for the earplugs does sound like a screw job. I would expect them to either cost less than half that, or have a duration of a couple of minutes on the protection effect.

Although the mention of the Were-PC does remind me of some of the rules wonkyness of Rifts and how it can simultaneously be cool and just odd.

Vampires in rifts are simply immune to most types of damage. That Boom Gun round which could shread a column of Tanks would do exaclty nothing to a vampire. Well, it would shread his clothing but a naked vampire is just as dangerous as one with a cape, so effectively not a damm thing. Spells don't work. Lasers don't work. Nukes don't work. What does? Wood for one, silver for another. So you can pick up a club or a silver sword and fight one, but even then they regenerate like Wolverine in a temper. Cool and scary so far. Vampires are a force of un-nature. Terrifying foes. Best weapon assuming barring sunlight? Running water. It's not just that they can't cross it. Moving water dissolves them like movie acid and they don't heal from it quickly. So what do vampire hunters carry? Super-soakers. Magic water pistols. Water balloons. ..... Scary gone now. Thanks for playing.

 

[jdrakeh]

Vampires are a force of un-nature. Terrifying foes. Best weapon assuming barring sunlight? Running water. It's not just that they can't cross it. Moving water dissolves them like movie acid and they don't heal from it quickly. So what do vampire hunters carry? Super-soakers. Magic water pistols. Water balloons. ..... Scary gone now. Thanks for playing.

Yeah, I always hated that decision. I agree that it took any scare potential out of vamps. I would have been cool with moving water causing damage but, as you say, the degree of damage that is causes under the current rules really removes vamps as any kind of credible threat (and worse, makes any kind of large vampire 'kingdom' totally implausible). If I ever run Rifts again, that bit of silliness is getting nixed pronto.

 

[Prince Atom]

Whiner Knight,
Your GM sounds like a jerk. A sonic boom isn't going to move a car. And the rules don't have anything about that.
If he or she was irritated with you taking GB (which, as you pointed out, is the most powerful choice in terms of round-by-round damage output in the core book) s/he should just have said "don't play that".

Far from it. He's one of my best friends. Nothing jerkish about it, IMO.

And compared to the dragon, a GB is small change. I think the dragon, and the dragon's player, caused him far more headaches than I ever did, especially since my major battle tactic included point-and-click with the Boom Gun or some other ranged weapon. Meanwhile, the dragon's player was going through this phase of "If it means I have to roll dice, I want to find some other method," which is to say, he wanted to do things by convincing the GM to let him do them, rather than rolling against a skill like everyone else.

But he's all better now.

OTOH 25 ISP per shot for the earplugs does sound like a screw job. I would expect them to either cost less than half that, or have a duration of a couple of minutes on the protection effect.

I said that seemed pretty steep at the time, but he explained that it was based upon a silence spell in the RIFTS book, the ISP cost of which was three or four times as much.

I don't know if the ISP requirement was per shot or per every few minutes. Like I said, it's been years.

TWK

 

[Felon]

Yknow, when I saw this thread I thought "oh, here we go again; people going on for way too may pages to express the simple sentiment that it's a very tantalizing setting with completely crappy rules". But man, am I glad I read it anyway. Most fun thread in a long time! Thank you all.

it's like 20 different 13 year olds decided to make what hey saw was the most kick ass game ever made (in all its juvenile glory) and then they were all combined into one monumentally stupid game.

This is the one that made me laugh 'til I cried.

 

[jdrakeh]

Far from it. He's one of my best friends. Nothing jerkish about it, IMO.

And compared to the dragon, a GB is small change. I think the dragon, and the dragon's player, caused him far more headaches than I ever did, especially since my major battle tactic included point-and-click with the Boom Gun or some other ranged weapon. Meanwhile, the dragon's player was going through this phase of "If it means I have to roll dice, I want to find some other method," which is to say, he wanted to do things by convincing the GM to let him do them, rather than rolling against a skill like everyone else.

But he's all better now.

OTOH 25 ISP per shot for the earplugs does sound like a screw job. I would expect them to either cost less than half that, or have a duration of a couple of minutes on the protection effect.

I said that seemed pretty steep at the time, but he explained that it was based upon a silence spell in the RIFTS book, the ISP cost of which was three or four times as much.

I don't know if the ISP requirement was per shot or per every few minutes. Like I said, it's been years.

TWK

There is a great deal of stuff not specifically covered by the Rifts rules (moreso than most games, IMHO), so you must wing it. Normally, this wouldn't be problematic for an experienced GM, though Rifts is unique in this regard. Normally, this wouldn't be problematic because the GM would follow employ simple logic and deductive reasoning to come up with an appropriate judgement for the resolution in question. . .

As the case with the earplugs and the boom gun discharge illustrates, if you're basing your adjudication on maths or descriptions already present in Rifts, taking things in the next logical direction will amplify the unfun because, let's face it, the foundation of basic maths and descriptions that Kevin built the many aspects of Rifts are completely non-sensical, defying logic at its most basic level.

This isn't necessarily a flaw, though. It's a quirk.

When extrapolating the next step in an undefined procedure or process in Rifts, the experienced Rifts GM will not employ logic or think in terms of what makes sense as, again, this is Rifts and sense isn't a big part of the setting. Instead, to make Rifts work well in actual play, it has been my experience that the GM must substitute "what is cool" for "what makes sense". In other words, damn being sensible!

Rifts is the most metal RPG outside of Senzar, and that is how it needs to be played!

In short, if it sucks (e.g., boom gun sonic fallout, stupidly high ISP costs, etc), it doesn't belong in Rifts, no matter how sensible it may be. Rifts is about bringing the cool, at any cost, not about bringing the Sir Issac Newton at the cost of cool. It's a crazy, unpredictable, often maligned, paradigm of play -- but as legions of fans attest to, hey, it works.

 

[Felon]

Rifts is the most metal RPG outside of Senzar, and that is how it needs to be played!

"Metal" or "mental"?

I think that Kevin deserves credit for one major thing: before RIFTS came along, most RPG products were cheap-o affairs, not much better than what you could made at a Kinko's. You were lucky to see some black-and-white ink drawings here and there. That even applied to D&D. Game publishers just didn't think graphics mattered to their audience--not enough to justify the expense. RIFTS was the game that really showed what high production values could do to generate an impulse purchase.

 

[Prince Atom]

In short, if it sucks (e.g., boom gun sonic fallout, stupidly high ISP costs, etc), it doesn't belong in Rifts, no matter how sensible it may be. Rifts is about bringing the cool, at any cost, not about bringing the Sir Issac Newton at the cost of cool.

I find that allowing the cool over the irritatingly-detail-wonky enhances my enjoyment of almost any system. Even GURPS. And I'll tell you that this RIFTS GM of mine was one who helped me realize that over the whole time we were playing together and all the campaigns we enjoyed. Remind me to tell you about the time they beat a "drowned" (bloated, waterlogged undead monster from MMIII) with a summoned Celestial Octopus....

That said, I think it was cool that my boom gun sent the car flying. That's an awesome visual. It didn't stop me seeking cover in future battles.

I'm sorry if you think my GM was inexperienced or jerky or whatever. That's your opinion.

But we had fun with RIFTS. That's what's important. I agree that you don't need to let the rules get in the way of fun. That applies to any RPG system, but especially to RIFTS.

TWK

 

[jdrakeh]

That said, I think it was cool that my boom gun sent the car flying. That's an awesome visual. It didn't stop me seeking cover in future battles.

I think the uncool was what happened for the other characters

I'm sorry if you think my GM was inexperienced or jerky or whatever.

I never said that and I apologize if you thought that was the point I was making (if you did, you missed my point entirely, BTW).