What is the 2nd controler ?

[Goken100]

No; Mearls said 8 was about the 'middle range' of the number of classes that might be in the PH when I asked him about it yesterday, specifically mentioning that the Internet was taking 8 classes as confirmed.

Really? That's interesting news. You're not WotC are you? If not, how were you speaking to Mearls? Any linky link to that conversation?

I'd also like to say that I hope and expect it to be possible to customize a character so that a Wizard can be a Striker or a Fighter be a Leader, etc. However, I doubt they will be as effective as the Classes designed specifically for that role. And that seems about right to me.

 

[Rechan]

Really? That's interesting news. You're not WotC are you? If not, how were you speaking to Mearls? Any linky link to that conversation?

Look at the top of your screen.

 

[M.L. Martin]

Really? That's interesting news. You're not WotC are you? If not, how were you speaking to Mearls? Any linky link to that conversation?

Worldwide D&D Game Day. I have the advantage of having a 'famous' FLGS, so we got celebrity guests--Easley, Kenneth Hite, Dave Arneson (he's local), and Mearls. Mearls was quite friendly and communicative; the 'how many classes in the PH?' question was really the only thing we talked about that he couldn't answer.

I'd also like to say that I hope and expect it to be possible to customize a character so that a Wizard can be a Striker or a Fighter be a Leader, etc. However, I doubt they will be as effective as the Classes designed specifically for that role. And that seems about right to me.

Mearls talked a bit about this in the discussion of multiclassing. A cleric is a healer/leader, and while a decent fighter isn't as good as the fighter. If you decide to multiclass with fighter, you'll still be able to fulfill your healer/leader role--although you won't be quite so potent at it as someone who's dedicated all their resources to it--and you'll be able to stand up on the front line with the fighter, although I get the impression you won't be quite so scary as a fighter. (Fighters will be scary, it sounds like--once you're within a fighter's reach, good luck getting back out. ) The objective for 4E is to make it harder to make an ineffective character--you might not be fully optimized, but you'll be able to make a solid contribution at the least.

 

[Felon]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your Role does not set you in stone. A role is just what the Class is designed to do at its base; what your class does automatically. The Defender Defends because it has lots of HP and has a high Fort save and AoOs and so on. The Striker's class is structured to do oodles of damage to one target. This is before powers come into play.

Powers may let you customize, and dip into other roles. That cleric who heals naturally can do his Leadery thing without wasting any of his actions - his actions may be devoted to getting in the monster's face, and he heals as an afterthought.

The Warlock may do more damage to certain opponents, but he could pick a power or two that also lets him control. Etc.

Sure. It would be lame if every ability of every class was utterly fixated on its role. In fact, I think we can be pretty sure at this point that every class will be capable of a strong offense, regardless of role. That explains the idea behind 4e throwing more opponents at the party.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your Role does not set you in stone. A role is just what the Class is designed to do at its base; what your class does automatically. The Defender Defends because it has lots of HP and has a high Fort save and AoOs and so on. The Striker's class is structured to do oodles of damage to one target. This is before powers come into play.

Powers may let you customize, and dip into other roles. That cleric who heals naturally can do his Leadery thing without wasting any of his actions - his actions may be devoted to getting in the monster's face, and he heals as an afterthought.

The Warlock may do more damage to certain opponents, but he could pick a power or two that also lets him control. Etc.

I've been thinking the same thing: that it's only the fixed class abilities for each class that are directed towards the role. The player can choose to get feats and powers that reinforce the fixed class abilities, or ones that do different things. And multiclassing sounds like it involves getting powers from other classes.

Taking this a bit further, I think it's possible that the fixed class abilities may not be very overwhelming. For example, the built-in healing of the leader role may be no more than a healing aura like the Dragon Shaman gets in PHB2. Being able to heal everyone up to 50% maximum HP after combat sounds like it could be enough to be considered an adequate healer. if a leader wants to do more, specialize.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Illusionist would be pretty awesome....

So we've got:

Cleric: Divine Leader
Fighter: Martial Defender
Paladin: Divine Defender?
Ranger: Martial Striker?
Rogue: Martial Striker
Warlock: Arcane Striker
Warlord: Martial Leader
Wizard: Arcane Controller

I don't think the Ranger is a Striker. It'd step on the rogue's toes too much. He *could* be a martial controller (aforementioned arrow abilities making sure foes don't move around). A divine controller would make sense, and a Druid, a creature who manipulates the land and creatures in it, would make a GOOD controller.

The Illusionist would be cool. But I think my money's on the Druid. And it *should* be the druid. Part of the reason that might not be mentioned yet is because they're still tinkering with the druid's fiddly bits a lot, figuring out how Wild Shape should work and how the Animal Companion thing is going to work, and how the spells will influence the battlefield.

Even if it's not the druid, it'll probably be Divine. We don't have a Divine Striker yet, so if the Ranger is a controller, a Divine Striker would go over well.

Though, actually, I wonder a bit about the Warlock. Could it be powered with Divine rather than Arcane? Making pacts with powerful outside entities sounds more like what a cleric does with a deity than what a wizard does with a tome (or a sorcerer does with the blood).

Speaking of Sorcs, we've heard them mentioned a bit, too, so we know they're at least in the early phases. They could be Arcane Leaders (a high Charisma would do them good in this respect).

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

I don't think the Ranger is a Striker.

Dave Noonan did say the Ranger was a Striker on one of the Gencon You-tube videos. Of course we don't know if that's still operative.

I think the Druid is the most likely choice for a second controller. Of the classes Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk and Sorcerer - the five 3.5 classes that haven't been mentioned in 4e - they seem to be the single most popular.

 

[ZappoHisbane]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Without speculating at all regarding WHAT classes there will be, I'm starting to think that there will a nice even dozen classes in the PHB. Here's my reasoning:

1. Allows for 4 classes per power source, one for each role.
2. Allows for 3 classes per role.
3. "8 is the midrange for number of classes." Makes me think 4 was the absolute minimum discussed, and 12 being the maximum.

After all, we had 11 classes in 3ed. What's one more? I know we've heard that not all of the classes from 3ed are making the cut, but have they actually said there will be fewer?

Of course, maybe I just like things to work out just a little too neatly and this is just wishful thinking.

 

[chitzk0i]

The objective for 4E is to make it harder to make an ineffective character--you might not be fully optimized, but you'll be able to make a solid contribution at the least.

That's what I'm talkin' about! [/Carl] I'm glad for that.

Powers may let you customize, and dip into other roles. That cleric who heals naturally can do his Leadery thing without wasting any of his actions - his actions may be devoted to getting in the monster's face, and he heals as an afterthought.

That's what I think, too.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

what about an Elemental Priest? would fit with the new cosmology and would be a nice divine controller

it would have Weather spell (Fog, call lightning), Wall spell (Fire wall, Stone wall), Pool spell (pool of acid..., pool of fire) and maybe the ability to call some monster to fight

a sort of splitting the Druid in Nature Druid (growingh thing) and Elemental Priest