D&D General What is the appeal of Tolkien fantasy races?

[Oofta]

No, you are making the mistake of thinking everyone shares a common culture with you. Even on these forums there are people from different countries and different generations. They all have different cultural baggage. And they often have very different ideas about elves and dwarves, and, whilst they may not have heard the name "Loxodon" a large proportion of the population of Earth knows what Ganesh looks like.

This wasn't universal. Tolkien himself was baffled that he was so popular in the USA when he received little recognition in his native country.

The game was traditionally focused on a western audience. I'm familiar with Ganesh, but that doesn't mean that I would know what the culture, or behavior of a race of Ganesh look-alikes would be or why they're called loxodons. At the very least, there's less than there is for elves and dwarves (or even halfings/gnomes) in the western world which is still a primary target audience.

This is not a thread about the appeal of "non-traditional" races. It's the appeal of "traditional" races.

 

[billd91]

This wasn't universal. Tolkien himself was baffled that he was so popular in the USA when he received little recognition in his native country.

Maybe in his lifetime, but the British audience recognizes him now since they rated Lord of the Rings as the UK’s best loved novel back in 2003.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The game was traditionally focused on a western audience. I'm familiar with Ganesh, but that doesn't mean that I would know what the culture, or behavior of a race of Ganesh look-alikes would be or why they're called loxodons. At the very least, there's less than there is for elves and dwarves (or even halfings/gnomes) in the western world which is still a primary target audience.

It doesn't matter. Short grumpy human, arrogant pointy eared human, elephant-headed human, it makes no difference.

When playing an anthropomorphic animal, people will tend to assign them the traits they associate with that animal. So, in the case of elephant, it would probably be strength, wisdom, and a long memory. If you are French it might also be a sharp suit and a bowler hat. The name of the race is irrelevant, very few people know nothing about elephants.

It's worth noting the The Western World =/= USA. The West has many different traditions. England has many different traditions. It's not monolithically American.

This is not a thread about the appeal of "non-traditional" races. It's the appeal of "traditional" races.

It's a false distinction. What is "traditional" and what is "non-traditional" depends on what traditions you where brought up with.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Maybe in his lifetime, but the British audience recognizes him now since they rated Lord of the Rings as the UK’s best loved novel back in 2003.

What gets voted on in internet based polls has a very strong geek-oriented selection bias. Very few people have actually read LotR in the UK.

These days, Tolkien is generally grouped with fist world war poets by the literary establishment, not a fantasy author. Terry Pratchett and J K Rowling have done more to repectablise fantasy in the UK.

 

[billd91]

What gets voted on in internet based polls has a very strong geek-oriented selection bias. Very few people have actually read LotR in the UK.

It wasn’t just an internet poll. The BBC’s methodology included SMS and phone polls as well.

 

[Oofta]

It doesn't matter. Short grumpy human, arrogant pointy eared human, elephant-headed human, it makes no difference.

When playing an anthropomorphic animal, people will tend to assign them the traits they associate with that animal. So, in the case of elephant, it would probably be strength, wisdom, and a long memory. If you are French it might also be a sharp suit and a bowler hat. The name of the race is irrelevant, very few people know nothing about elephants.

It's worth noting the The Western World =/= USA. The West has many different traditions. England has many different traditions. It's not monolithically American.

It's a false distinction. What is "traditional" and what is "non-traditional" depends on what traditions you where brought up with.

I have no idea what you're getting at. For a significant percentage of the people who play D&D, the "traditional" races have more depth. They've been part of the shared cultural fiction in a more reliable and recognizable form than most "non-traditional" races. Dwarves are grumpy have strict rules and are likely to be miners that live underground. Elves are more carefree, generally value nature and live in the forest. It's more than just short or pointy ears.

That's all. Says nothing about cultures, playing "non-traditional" races, the fact that D&D is played outside of North America.

Have a good one because you're arguing something completely unrelated to the thread or what I'm saying.

 

[Minigiant]

The point is it all came down to Tolkien.

If Tolkien included elephantmen and monkeypeople in the Hobbit and the LOTR, they would be as traditional as elves and dwarves.

If Tolkien used Greek races instead of Norse ones, they would be as traditional as elves and dwarves.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I have no idea what you're getting at.

What I'm getting at is your argument is based on cultural bias.

For a significant percentage of the people who play D&D

No.

No. It might be true for you and your mates, but as D&D has expanded its player-base has evolved and incorporated people from a much broader range of cultural backgrounds. It is not surprising that the choices that resonate with different groups people diverge from the 1970s American geek culture of the people who first created it.

, the "traditional" races have more depth. They've been part of the shared cultural fiction in a more reliable and recognizable form than most "non-traditional" races.

They have more depth to you, and people who share your culture. They are recognisable to you, and people who share your culture.

 

[Oofta]

What I'm getting at is your argument is based on cultural bias.


No.

No. It might be true for you and your mates, but as D&D has expanded its player-base has evolved and incorporated people from a much broader range of cultural backgrounds. It is not surprising that the choices that resonate with different groups people diverge from the 1970s American geek culture of the people who first created it.

They have more depth to you, and people who share your culture. They are recognisable to you, and people who share your culture.

A significant subset of people that play D&D have been raised on the same tropes and cultural icons as I have. Tolkien, Salvatore, Gold Box D&D games, Dragon Age, on and on.

So to a significant subset of people that play D&D, the "traditional" races have a draw. Which is what this thread is about. Nothing to do with the overall broad base of D&D, nothing to do with what many people would consider "non-traditional" races. Why you keep bringing up cultural bias or making it personal is beyond me.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A significant subset of people that play D&D have been raised on the same tropes and cultural icons as I have. Tolkien, Salvatore, Gold Box D&D games, Dragon Age, on and on.

So to a significant subset of people that play D&D, the "traditional" races have a draw.

Which answers the original question. Those races are popular amongst people with that cultural background because they are significant to people with that cultural background. There is nothing mysterious going on.