D&D General What is the appeal of Tolkien fantasy races?

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Of course there's also keebler elves which are super important.

Well, Tolkein elves have never made me any delicious cookies.

 

[Minigiant]

Of course there's also keebler elves which are super important.

I come from a strict Chocolate Chip, Oreos, and Oatmeal Raisin family.

No amount of elfwiches and fudge stripes gonna put Keeblers above the Sidhe.

 

[Voadam]

I come from a strict Chocolate Chip, Oreos, and Oatmeal Raisin family.

No amount of elfwiches and fudge stripes gonna put Keeblers above the Sidhe.

Mmm, forbidden cookies.

Fudge stripes, particularly the oops! covered entirely in fudge ones, are fantastic.

 

[TheSword]

This thread is like a treasure trove of obscure characters. I mean when we start dragging up Star Trek episodes, doctor who antagonists, and cartoons from the 80’s then we are scraping the barrel.

No one is saying references to anthropomorphic animals don’t exist in media.

I would point out that none of these references are in fantasy works though. They’re all sci-fi.

The fact of the matter remains that elves and dwarves etc are the bulk of non-humans in fantasy media.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The point is that the tropes for elves,drwarves, and halflings are universally popular.

Bollocks.

Broadly popular perhaps, but far from universally.

Although halflings are a bit of an outlier, they get talked about less, despite being far more important in Tolkien.

"Everyone doesn't know the tropes for catfolk" is true
"No one knows the tropes for catfolk" is false.

Anyone who has a pet cat knows what cats are like. You simply transfer the traits of your pet cat to a person, and bam, you have made a cat-person.

That's the thing with anthropomorphic animal people. You don't need fantasy novels (although there are plenty of them, e.g. Narnia, Redwall) to tell you how to play them. You just need to know about the animal, ether the reality or the myths. And all animals that humans encounter have myths and stories about them.

 

[Minigiant]

Bollocks.

Broadly popular perhaps, but far from universally.

Although halflings are a bit of an outlier, they get talked about less, despite being far more important in Tolkien.

I meant known by fantasy fans with access to modern media.

Anyone who has a pet cat knows what cats are like. You simply transfer the traits of your pet cat to a person, and bam, you have made a cat-person.

That's the thing with anthropomorphic animal people. You don't need fantasy novels (although there are plenty of them, e.g. Narnia, Redwall) to tell you how to play them. You just need to know about the animal, ether the reality or the myths. And all animals that humans encounter have myths and stories about them

Not ever anthropomorphic or beastlike race's tropes are based on the animal they come from.

Goats, cattle, spiders, lizards, and some other animals when turned humanoids have tropes that aren't automatically attributed to the base animal in strong enough focus that it takes over the whole races characteristics. Especially when the tropes come from myths, tales, and religion.

And like I said before, the traditional races of D&D are a bit more divorced from their mythological and religous roots than other races.

Because Tolkien

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The game was traditionally focused on a western audience.

I literally couldn't care less who it's "traditionally focused" on. We're talking about a game where the only limits are imagination and buy-in. "Traditional" focus is entirely irrelevant.

Even if it were? Gold dragons were originally Chinese dragons. You can see it in the old art, where they don't have wings. I swear I've seen an old B&W image with the deer-like horns, but can't seem to find it now. Certainly their famous "whiskers" are a reference to the Chinese dragon's whiskers, often attributed to it having the Rat's whiskers or a connection to carp (which legend said could turn into a dragon if it lived long enough, hence Magikarp becoming Gyarados.)

The game has always included a blend of influences from cultures around the world--and things from entirely outside it. Barrier Peaks, anyone?

 

[Voadam]

Not ever anthropomorphic or beastlike race's tropes are based on the animal they come from.

Goats, cattle, spiders, lizards, and some other animals when turned humanoids have tropes that aren't automatically attributed to the base animal in strong enough focus that it takes over the whole races characteristics. Especially when the tropes come from myths, tales, and religion.

True, goats often get the devil association of the demonization of Pan and satyrs tying into the Devil so you have Beastmen from Warhammer and Trollocs from Wheel of Time being cannibals instead of focusing on eating most weeds. Also the Minotaur from Greek myth was a cannibal despite having a bovine plant eater head, specifically to evoke how much of a monstrous abomination of a curse monster it was.

I can't place your reference to spiders or lizards though, what examples are you thinking of?

And like I said before, the traditional races of D&D are a bit more divorced from their mythological and religous roots than other races.

Because Tolkien

I don't know, D&D Minotaurs being a race is pretty far off the mythological roots of a singular abomination. D&D tends to divorce things from their roots regularly. Similarly for Tiefling empires compared to the singular special Merlin or Hellboy. Even the Tolkien basis gets divorced within D&D fairly often as can be seen with Kender versus Hobbits or the cannibal Halflings of Dark Sun or Dinosaur riders of Eberron.[/QUOTE]

 

[Minigiant]

True, goats often get the devil association of the demonization of Pan and satyrs tying into the Devil so you have Beastmen from Warhammer and Trollocs from Wheel of Time being cannibals instead of focusing on eating most weeds. Also the Minotaur from Greek myth was a cannibal despite having a bovine plant eater head, specifically to evoke how much of a monstrous abomination of a curse monster it was.

I can't place your reference to spiders or lizards though, what examples are you thinking of?

.

West African and West North American

 

[Scribe]

I can't place your reference to spiders or lizards though, what examples are you thinking of?

Not surprising, since the global and broad (not universal!) appeal of Tolkien doesnt expand on those things.

Anansi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For example.