What is the Best Roll?

[GMMichael]

You're playing a game in which your goal, when it comes to determining the quality of outcomes, is to roll your d20 higher than the GM's d20. Each side has miscellaneous bonuses to add to its result due to favorable circumstances.

What is the result of your roll that indicates the best outcome?

20 on the die, since more is better?

One higher than the GMs result, since as you get more bonus points, it's actually harder to roll low and still win?

Tie with the GM, since that's the least likely result? Because if you have more or fewer (but not equal) bonus points than the GM, you are more likely to either win or lose - but odds of a tie diminish. Note that a tie, though rare, does not automatically indicate a win under these rules.

Or something else, like a result that equals your attribute score?

 

[Maxperson]

You're playing a game in which your goal, when it comes to determining the quality of outcomes, is to roll your d20 higher than the GM's d20. Each side has miscellaneous bonuses to add to its result due to favorable circumstances.

What is the result of your roll that indicates the best outcome?

20 on the die, since more is better?

One higher than the GMs result, since as you get more bonus points, it's actually harder to roll low and still win?

Tie with the GM, since that's the least likely result? Because if you have more or fewer (but not equal) bonus points than the GM, you are more likely to either win or lose - but odds of a tie diminish. Note that a tie, though rare, does not automatically indicate a win under these rules.

Or something else, like a result that equals your attribute score?

Most DMs I play with will give a greater effect/auto success with a roll of 20, so 20 is what you shoot for. Even if they don't and the purpose is to roll higher, it's still cooler to roll that 20 than to roll an 18 or 19 and beat the DM.

 

[Blue]

Chances of a tie don't decrease because the odds of rolling any specific number are the same. If you have +9 and I have -9, we have the exact same odds of rolling a tie as if we both have +0 or if you have +20 and I have +39. Ona d20, it's 5%. (Different if you were using multiple dice and had a bell curve.)

Now, when 3e came out on of the die rolling concepts they introduced over AD&D 2nd was that higher alway equals better, to make it more intuitively obvious to the player (and GM) what was better. So if you have other rolls that need to definitevely dictate what is best, I'd keep the same for this roll. Otherwise I'd go with 20 is best because it is the most intuitively obvious, vs. parsing to see if it's the same number,

 

[Maxperson]

What's the best roll?

 

[Mezuka]

Since it is a contested roll, higher than the GM is the best roll. By how much you beat his result is the outcome. So, [15 and 19] or [23 and 27] are the same results. You beat the GM by only 4 (20%) in both cases. A marginal success.

edit: If you beat the GM by 50% more that would, in my mind, be a very good success. If you get 75% more that is an extraordinary success.

 

[GMMichael]

Chances of a tie don't decrease because the odds of rolling any specific number are the same. If you have +9 and I have -9, we have the exact same odds of rolling a tie as if we both have +0 or if you have +20 and I have +39.

Yes, but I'm looking at it more one-sided. As the PC's bonus goes up, the PC can roll more results that the GM can't: lower odds of a tie. After the GM rolls, there are only two probabilities of a tie: 0% or 5%. I.e. a tie is one of the outcomes or it's not.

Since it is a contested roll, higher than the GM is the best roll. By how much you beat his result is the outcome. So, [15 and 19] or [23 and 27] are the same results. You beat the GM by only 4 (20%) in both cases.

This points toward Blue's "intuitively obvious" metric, but I'm still not sold on the standard degrees-of-success system...

 

[Mezuka]

This points toward Blue's "intuitively obvious" metric, but I'm still not sold on the standard degrees-of-success system...

Fantasy AGE uses 3d6. One die is a different colour. If you succeed or if you fail you look at the coloured die to determine the level of success or failure. 6 greatest success. 1 worst failure.

 

[Deset Gled]

Tie with the GM, since that's the least likely result?

The odds of rolling the same number as the DM is 1/20, the same odds as rolling a 20.

 

[Morrus]

Ham and cheese roll.

 

[Mezuka]

The odds of rolling the same number as the DM is 1/20, the same odds as rolling a 20.

This seems wrong. To roll the same as the DM you need both rolls to be the same result. It's not the same as a single d20 result (5%) of 20.

 

[Yora]

When you crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and you hear the lamentations of their players!

 

[MarkB]

You're playing a game in which your goal, when it comes to determining the quality of outcomes, is to roll your d20 higher than the GM's d20. Each side has miscellaneous bonuses to add to its result due to favorable circumstances.

What is the result of your roll that indicates the best outcome?

20 on the die, since more is better?

One higher than the GMs result, since as you get more bonus points, it's actually harder to roll low and still win?

Tie with the GM, since that's the least likely result? Because if you have more or fewer (but not equal) bonus points than the GM, you are more likely to either win or lose - but odds of a tie diminish. Note that a tie, though rare, does not automatically indicate a win under these rules.

Or something else, like a result that equals your attribute score?

20 on the die is easiest to grasp. It's a simple case of "the higher the better." Any of the other options put you as a player in the weird position of wanting to roll "high, but not too high", which is going to tend to feel out of place for many players.

If you want something variable, you could go with something like "beat the GM's roll by 5 or more", which places more emphasis on the bonuses each side gets to their roll, as in some cases, if the GM rolled high enough, that super-good result may simply be unachievable.

 

[Deset Gled]

This seems wrong. To roll the same as the DM you need both rolls to be the same result. It's not the same as a single d20 result (5%) of 20.

There are 400 equally likely ways to roll two d20s (20x20=400). Of those 400 ways, 20 of them have paired results (1&1, 2&2, ... 19&19, 20&20). 20 out of 400 is 20/400 = 1/20 = 5%.

It may seem wrong, but I think to math holds up. Of course, this is assuming there are no modifiers to the rolls.

 

[GMMichael]

There are 400 equally likely ways to roll two d20s (20x20=400). Of those 400 ways, 20 of them have paired results (1&1, 2&2, ... 19&19, 20&20). 20 out of 400 is 20/400 = 1/20 = 5%. . . . Of course, this is assuming there are no modifiers to the rolls.

And the modifiers, or bonuses, are why getting a tie becomes less likely. If one side rolls d20 and the other side rolls d20+19, then there's a 1-in-400 chance of rolling a tie.

I have this weird notion that the best-outcome-roll should be less likely than other outcomes, which is why the tied roll (followed by a "confirmation" if you will) is a likely candidate. It's also why I'm not a fan of 20-is-best; you have the same odds of rolling any other number. If you add "and win" to the condition of "roll X" then winning in this way becomes less likely but...wait for it...rolling a 20 and winning is more likely than rolling a low number and winning when considering the results of the two rolls.

One of the Other candidates could be "roll a winning result that your opponent cannot achieve." This will only happen if your bonuses are higher than the GM, and requires some maths, but it answers the question "why are you neatly beating the GM on this roll?"