D&D 5E What is the logic behind one 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level spell?

[Zaran]

I REALLY hate the lack of spell power at higher levels. I would have been fine with it if they let Arcane Reserves work with any level of spell. I also think it's a fallacy that a level 2 spell will work great against high level foes. They get to make a save every round. Even average saving throws are going to break that spell after one or two rounds. And while they are doing that, the caster has to concentrate on the spell.

 

[Joe Liker]

I would not want to live in a world where even one person existed who could cast earthquake multiple times per day -- especially if that person could also teleport and fly and turn invisible basically at will.

For some things, once really is enough.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I would not want to live in a world where even one person existed who could cast earthquake multiple times per day -- especially if that person could also teleport and fly and turn invisible basically at will.

For some things, once really is enough.

Yeah, when 9th level spells do stuff like nuke a village from a mile away, turn you into a gold dragon forever, or give you advantage on all attacks and saves for eight hours (and your opponents disadvantage on attacks against you) or friggin WISH, once a day is plenty.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I need some help with the logic behind limiting 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells to one per day. On face value it appears this is to combat the quadratic caster. But then the scaling of spells means in high level play you only have up to four spells per day that are effective while the lower level spells are middling.

I think about it this way: having a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level spell is a class feature. Half-casters and third-casters don't get them. They are unique to the spellcasting specialists. Each one is a 1/day power that you select from a list of 1/day powers you can get.

Lower-level spells are more your bread-and-butter magical effects. Those are the ones you're slinging around in every encounter. They're still relevant (thanks, Bounded Accuracy!), they're just not as flashy. They're roughly equal to non-spellcasters' "short rest" abilities.

Seeing them more as class features means it makes sense to break with the pattern for lower-level effects when reaching to the higher levels.

 

[Ashkelon]

I REALLY hate the lack of spell power at higher levels. I would have been fine with it if they let Arcane Reserves work with any level of spell. I also think it's a fallacy that a level 2 spell will work great against high level foes. They get to make a save every round. Even average saving throws are going to break that spell after one or two rounds. And while they are doing that, the caster has to concentrate on the spell.

There are many mid to high level enemies with between a +0 and +2 to their Wisdom saving throws. It isn't hard for a level 13 wizard to make their spells have a DC of 18.

That is going to take quite a few rounds to break free from.

 

[Sadras]

Yeah, when 9th level spells do stuff like nuke a village from a mile away, turn you into a gold dragon forever, or give you advantage on all attacks and saves for eight hours (and your opponents disadvantage on attacks against you) or friggin WISH, once a day is plenty.

If you're fighting villagers in your late teen-levels, your DM is doing it, dare I say it, wrong.

 

[MasterTrancer]

If you're fighting villagers in your late teen-levels, your DM is doing it, dare I say it, wrong.

Well, the rules hold for both the PCs and the villains, and they're likely to threaten villages [emoji6]

 

[Celebrim]

In the shortest possible terms, the logic is "bounded accuracy". Bounded accuracy means that after 10th level, there is only so much increase in power the non-spellcasting classes can have, so the spellcasters likewise must slowly increase in power.

In addition to trying to the usual problem that casters after 9th level were increasing in number of spells, increasing in the power of their spells, and increasing in the potency of their existing spells so that they were exponentially increasing in power as they increased level much faster than the 'linear' increase in power of the non-spell casters, they've also got the problem that they've capped increases in power of all classes. Greatly limiting the number of high level spells for casters was probably the best available solution.

If you tinker with it, you are going to need to tinker heavily with advantages non-spellcasters get after 10th level as well as increase the powers of pretty much everything that is CR 12 or higher.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There's also the huge issue of "party strength" over and above "character strength".

Sure... a character that has only a single 6th, 7th, 8th, & 9th level spell seems like they are lacking in power (although truth be told, with an 8 hour break in the day, a character really gets TWO 6th, 7th, 8th, & 9th level spells per day)... but when you add in potentially 1 to 3 other characters in the party with a 6th, 7th, 8th, & 9th level spell, the power the GROUP throws out is still absolutely huge.

You yourself might get pissed because the enemy saved against your 9th level spell you threw at him... but that enemy still has to deal with the other one to three 9th level spells coming his way. And then tomorrow, the next enemy might save against someone else's 9th level spell and it's *yours* that breaks through and absolutely destroys and ends the fight. In the micro... four (or possibly eight) 6th through 9th level spells doesn't seem like a lot. But still... that's PER DAY. That's still almost 1,460 to 2,920 spells of that kind of power you could cast per year.

Can't speak for anyone else... but if I had the power to instantaneously kill someone within 60 feet of me with but the utterance of a single word each day every day... I dunno if "lacking in power" is really the description I'd choose.

 

[MasterTrancer]

Can't speak for anyone else... but if I had the power to instantaneously kill someone within 60 feet of me with but the utterance of a single word each day every day... I dunno if "lacking in power" is really the description I'd choose.

Speaking for me, I'd go with "lacking in enemies"