DragonLancer said:
But doesn't that assume they're all the same? Don't RPGs have one huge difference between them and other game types?
What is THE NEXT BIG THING?
- Thread starter Bert the Ogre
- Start date
But doesn't that assume they're all the same? Don't RPGs have one huge difference between them and other game types?
Acid_crash
First Post
Personally, unlike computer games and ccg's, roleplaying games always have a difficult time with the whole NEXT BIG THING because as long as there is a D&D incarnation being published, there can't be a NEXT BIG THING. Sure, you can argue that the d20 version was the next big thing, but it was just an updated D&D to a new edition, so it truly wan't a NEW BIG THING. Sure, it was sort of revolutionary and it did spark sells, but it was nothing truly new. Games have been using the d20 as a dice of resolution for the last three decades, so how was it truly revolutionary. Other games have used a very similar dice mechanic, so the dice system wasn't truly revolutionary.
It was a good thing, but nothing as revolutionary as it was hoped it would be.
For something to be the NEXT BIG THING, it has to truly stand out. And as long as D&D is the top dog of roleplaying, that truly won't happen because D&D has so much luggage associated with it, so many 'sacred cows' that if they weren't kept in, many wouldn't consider it D&D, even if it had the logo.
That's my thoughts, nothing big will catch the eyes of most gamers unless either D&D is changed in such a drastic way that it is no longer associated with the previous incarnations, as far as style, design and all those sacred cows, and it would have to become something truly new and not just an update, and something truly innovative. OR.....D&D has to be overthrown by something else that is truly new and yet can catch the attention of almost half the D&D gamers who are willing to look at other games.
It was a good thing, but nothing as revolutionary as it was hoped it would be.
For something to be the NEXT BIG THING, it has to truly stand out. And as long as D&D is the top dog of roleplaying, that truly won't happen because D&D has so much luggage associated with it, so many 'sacred cows' that if they weren't kept in, many wouldn't consider it D&D, even if it had the logo.
That's my thoughts, nothing big will catch the eyes of most gamers unless either D&D is changed in such a drastic way that it is no longer associated with the previous incarnations, as far as style, design and all those sacred cows, and it would have to become something truly new and not just an update, and something truly innovative. OR.....D&D has to be overthrown by something else that is truly new and yet can catch the attention of almost half the D&D gamers who are willing to look at other games.
AFGNCAAP
First Post
Acid_crash said:
(Emphasis mine.)
IMHO, this just won't happen.
Any game system can ony go so far. If it tries to focus on one element, it has to move away from including another. And, as it is, there will be those gamers out there who'll always say "Why can't D&D be more like ________?". Each game system out there has it's strengths & weaknesses, and there'll never be a perfect game system, because each person's perception of what "perfect" is will be different. And, having the option to have D&D have more elements which could make it more like X may not be enough for those gamers, because those options still may not go far enough. There'll always be those gamers who'll think the system isn't complex enough, or isn't simplistic enough, or should be skill-based instead of class-based, or be more flexible, or more set in stone, or etc....
Honestly, I think 3.X's consideration of balance is a good thing, because it's lousy to think that your PC isn't that great & is limited just because you picked the wrong race/class combo, even though you wanted to play that certain mix because it appealed to you initially. The severe lack of in-game balance (or an effort to really make in-game balance) is what drove me away from Palladium products, and it easily explains the ridiculous popularity of the umpteen subraces of elves and numerous monster PCs (like half-ogres, minotaurs, and thri-kreen) played by various other players in 2nd ed. AD&D games back in the day.
Sorry, bit of a tangent on my part.
If you really want to go the technical route, then potentially the NEXT BIG THING, or the next big thing a few next big things down the line from now, would be the totally-immersive online gaming experience. Playing MMORPGs using virtual reality hardware instead of a keyboard, mouse, game controller, monitor, & other traditional computer input/output devices.
Or, OTOH, the potential Next Big Thing is already out there, but it's going to take a bit more time & the right things to gel--no-fee MMORPGs. Guild Wars fits this bill, but it's not WoW. But imagine a no-fee WoW MMORPG, Everquest, or City of Heroes. Or, a no-fee D&D MMORPG, perhaps built off of the Neverwinter Nights games, or using a lot of the big/good/popular innovations from many past D&D CRPGs used towards a new flagship D&D CRPG/MMORPG title.
Maybe add to this the use of consoles instead of computers, utilizing a floorpad (akin to something for DDR) with a pair of motion-sensitive hand controls (like the Wiimote & Nunchuk). Add a voice controller for online communication with other players & interaction with game elements/mechanics. So, in the end, you'd have a cool, extensive MMORPG game that you actually get up & play for the most part, AND on top of all that, there's absolutely NO silly monthly fee to play the game--just the initial cost for the game itself (and the console & controllers).
Perhaps the Next Big Thing RPG-wise could be a general d20 System which uses the same system for all & any WotC games (and no longer have the "Big 3" similar-yet-distinct WotC d20 games of D&D, Star Wars, and d20 Modern).
It usually seems that a lot of Next Big Things seem to be a sort-of Reese's Peanut Butter Cup sort of fusion of existing ideas ("You got peanut butter on me chocolate!" "You got chocolate on my peanut butter!"). CCGs are basically a fusion between playing cards and collectible cards. Collectible minis games seem to be a fusion between CCGs and minis gaming. Heck, D&D originally was a fusion between minis wargaming & fantasy fiction. CRPGs were just a fusion between RPGs and computers. It's usually something not made from whole cloth, but instead pieced together from things already out there. Which is why, of course, a lot of people wind up slapping themselves on the heads & say "Why didn't I think of that?" when it comes out.
Lonely Tylenol
First Post
At risk of sounding gloomy, I am not optimistic that there is a future for tabletop RPGs, at least in the current environment. I think that the DDM gravy train will eventually run dry, and WotC will dwindle and collapse like Apple would without the iPod. The market for new books is getting tougher, and so we're seeing more new rules and new ideas appearing in the books. There's a lot of good work being done, but eventually we'll hit the limit for rules bloat and just stop caring that the new Complete Backscratcher has a really amazing and brilliant system for modelling exfoliation using the Escape Artist skill as its basis. There are only so many things you can write into a roleplaying game that don't involve a story.
A new edition is probably not going to solve this problem, because it's going to be hard to convince people that the next edition is so much freaking better than 3.5 that they'll want to invest thousands of dollars and years of time into it, since they just got finished doing that with 3.5 and now have a bit of a hangover. The 3.5 fans will stick with 3.5, and the people who aren't really in love with the system will probably find something else to do. Some will go to other systems that offer a different style of game, perhaps things like Castles and Crusades or Burning Wheel, but many will just drift away from roleplaying altogether.
Dragon and Dungeon will chug forward, supporting 3.5 as long as they are allowed to, since their subscription base is probably composed mostly of diehard D&D fans. But if they are forced to switch to a new edition, they'll probably go down with it. I predict that a new edition will cause a small boost in interest, but nothing like the effect of 3rd edition, and the boost will die back quickly. Hasbro will probably pull the plug as soon as DDM loses its charm and ceases to be profitable anyway, so we might not even see WotC wind down so much as disappear overnight.
Anyway, that's the way I see it happening. I hope D&D is around for a long time, but I just can't figure out a scenario in which it manages to survive, unless 4E is really, really freakin' good. As in, "can draw players in like MMORPGs can," good.
A new edition is probably not going to solve this problem, because it's going to be hard to convince people that the next edition is so much freaking better than 3.5 that they'll want to invest thousands of dollars and years of time into it, since they just got finished doing that with 3.5 and now have a bit of a hangover. The 3.5 fans will stick with 3.5, and the people who aren't really in love with the system will probably find something else to do. Some will go to other systems that offer a different style of game, perhaps things like Castles and Crusades or Burning Wheel, but many will just drift away from roleplaying altogether.
Dragon and Dungeon will chug forward, supporting 3.5 as long as they are allowed to, since their subscription base is probably composed mostly of diehard D&D fans. But if they are forced to switch to a new edition, they'll probably go down with it. I predict that a new edition will cause a small boost in interest, but nothing like the effect of 3rd edition, and the boost will die back quickly. Hasbro will probably pull the plug as soon as DDM loses its charm and ceases to be profitable anyway, so we might not even see WotC wind down so much as disappear overnight.
Anyway, that's the way I see it happening. I hope D&D is around for a long time, but I just can't figure out a scenario in which it manages to survive, unless 4E is really, really freakin' good. As in, "can draw players in like MMORPGs can," good.
In RPGs? I'll just mention some areas that need to be explored:
1) Linear instead of orthogonal buy-in. Mentzer D&D was the only RPG that ever took this model to its end. Games keep being designed to be playable for all time in one or a few books -- a strategy that encourages gamers to make their purchases and never come back unless they're dedicated fans. Attempts at "basic games" have always managed to be made redundant by their fully developed "big brothers."
2) Evolving storylines have yet to be done properly. Traditional metaplots are a nightmare for creative staff because they create continuity issues over time. CCG and novel-style nodal events have been tried in RPGs, and generally only succeed when there's actual corssover from a CCG or popular novel series (and in L5R's case, that's made the RPG largely a CCG fan purchase). Otherwise, they simply bomb, a la Heavy Gear. Exalted has hit closest to the mark so far by encouraging the fiction that it doesn't have a storyline when really, the fanbase knows full well what that storyline would be.
3) I think it's about time for a more upbeat modern fantasy game. Previous attempts have either been tied to another complex IP (Changeling, Urban Arcana) or to generic (Deliria, Dreaming Cities). As a matter of fact, don't be surprised when you hear more about this in the near future.
1) Linear instead of orthogonal buy-in. Mentzer D&D was the only RPG that ever took this model to its end. Games keep being designed to be playable for all time in one or a few books -- a strategy that encourages gamers to make their purchases and never come back unless they're dedicated fans. Attempts at "basic games" have always managed to be made redundant by their fully developed "big brothers."
2) Evolving storylines have yet to be done properly. Traditional metaplots are a nightmare for creative staff because they create continuity issues over time. CCG and novel-style nodal events have been tried in RPGs, and generally only succeed when there's actual corssover from a CCG or popular novel series (and in L5R's case, that's made the RPG largely a CCG fan purchase). Otherwise, they simply bomb, a la Heavy Gear. Exalted has hit closest to the mark so far by encouraging the fiction that it doesn't have a storyline when really, the fanbase knows full well what that storyline would be.
3) I think it's about time for a more upbeat modern fantasy game. Previous attempts have either been tied to another complex IP (Changeling, Urban Arcana) or to generic (Deliria, Dreaming Cities). As a matter of fact, don't be surprised when you hear more about this in the near future.
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